Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
8:00 am EDT
Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Really, REALLY sure?
[Spooky quips from star geeks]
A New Light In Our Sky? linky poo
And in an article from Yahoo News, Brian Marsden, director emeritus of the Minor Planet Center, which tracks known comets and asteroids, has stated, "This is a terrific outburst. And since it doesn't have a tail right now, some observers have confused it with a nova. We've had at least two reports of a new star." And comet expert John Bortle has said that the head of the comet could continue to grow in size and may possibly reach the apparent size of the moon in our sky.
UPDATE: Comet 17P/Holmes has been relentlessly expanding since its explosion on Oct 23rd and now it spans an angle in the sky almost half as wide as the full Moon. The comet's physical diameter is thus seven times wider than the planet Jupiter--and it is still expanding. linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
8:08 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are sure this is a comet?
Composition C2 and NH2 linky poo
Googling NH2 I keep coming up with amino acids -NH2 A compound containing an amino group is called an amine. linky poo
What's the deal here?
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
8:08 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are sure this is a comet?
Erm 7 times the size of our biggest planet that's a big ball of crap.
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
8:12 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Golly-gosh I'll cop to the idea that this is or was once a comet.
But what the blazes is it now, this puff o' unstable carbon and amino brew?
William Blake said that the universe is in a grain of sand, etc, etc.
From what I'm reading this critter is what it is, an enigma
Enigmas are cool because unwashed sub-astros like me can insert what we want to fill in the enigma space.
For instance
HOLMES-ENIGMA=big giant ducky egg.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
8:30 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
or write cool limericks
There once was a critter in space
as gawked by the poor human race.
It became a big blow
and continued to grow
til it got right into my face.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
8:50 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
FUN WITH ENIGMAS
Here, I'll try another, maybe it's a seeder, sort of like a cosmic dandelion.
Maybe it's a ZORK-SEEDER!
Drat, my head hurts.
You try it.
MAYBE IT'S A______ [fill in the blank]
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
8:57 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
This thing is frickin' bright! I saw it with me naked through overcast skies and light pollution. The stars were barely visible but this darned thing came through clearly. It is exciting, in'nit?
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
9:10 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
it´s weird that the "outburst" formed a spherical "halo" rather than a tail...
seems impossible...
the "lucifer project" came to mind. who knows...
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
9:13 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Some have suggested that this light in the sky is man-made and is leading to a scenario laid out for us by Wernher Von Braun in the 70s and Canadian journalist Serge Monast in the 90s of a faked alien invasion
I'm glad the article makes mention of this. I've been sensing the "laying-of-groundwork" for this scenario for some time now.
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
9:35 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Now what th heck is THIS? Enigma-wise....
"Brightest Supernova Ever" Reveals New Kind of Star Death
Victoria Jaggard in Washington, D.C.
National Geographic News
May 8, 2007
The brightest star explosion ever seen has been spotted about 240 million light-years away in the constellation Perseus, researchers announced yesterday. linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
SS
11/1/2007
9:37 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
i saw i with my own eyes .. it is definantly a comet in outburst .. the nucleus was very distinct in the comet .. there is no doubt that is comet holmes in outburst .. alot of periodic comets do not form tails even in outburst .. consider comet schwassmann-wachmann 1 that is always outburst .. it never really develops a tail even when in outburst ..
comet holmes is EXACTLY where it is predicted to be in orbit and it is in megaoutburst .. this is not the first time comet holmes went into megaoutburst:
1892 17M outburst to 4M = 13 Magnitudes of outburst
2007 17M outburst to 2M = 15 Magnitudes of outburst
this is not an inbound spaceship nor is it a supernova .. it is a comet .. if you go outside tonight and look up there with a pair of binoculars you can see for yourself that it is a comet .
i did see some people on GLP posting the supernova from last year in perseus and saying that the comet was actually this supernova and they are incorrect .. here is a starmap featuring the brightest supernova ever recorded along side the brightest outburst of a comet ever recorded :
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Hmm lucifer project test run? may be they just slammed a small nuke into it to see if the plans to turn Saturn into a second sun will work.
ok well they must have did the same thing in 1892 as well .. crowley was 17 years old in 1892 i am sure he would thought that same thing you do now when they marveled at comet holmes outburst back then ???
and btw nuking any of those gas planets will fail to form a star .. really you guys should consider doing research into star formation .. do you think you could nuke a brown dwarf and make it turn into a star ?? i seriously doubt it ..
Your star map Holmes/supernova comparison, captured and cropped
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/10-23-07holmes_mega burst.jpg
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
10:05 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
isn´t it traveling in the asteroid belt..?
it could be a piece of an ancient proto planet. a rocky metallic "asteroid"...
anybody of you know the diameter of this thing?
SS
11/1/2007
10:05 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
ok well i just cannot connect to it at the moment .. yeah you can see there in my starmap the comet and the supernova are two different objects .. here is a link to the story:
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
anybody of you know the diameter of this thing?
Pi
Ambilac
11/1/2007
10:26 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
According to space weather linky poohttp://www.spaceweather.com/
Quote
Actually, the comet is even bigger than it looks. While the Moon is a mere 240 thousand miles away, Comet Holmes is 150 million miles from Earth. The comet's physical diameter is thus seven times wider than the planet Jupiter--and it is still expanding
Unquote
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
10:35 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
it is where the comet was ?
i dunno
is it still moving in the same direction
per the JPL diagram?
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
10:46 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
more on the supernova angle
On September 18, 2006, astronomer Robert M. Quimby detected the brightest and largest supernova ever recorded by contemporary astronomers, using the ROTSE-IIIb telescope at McDonald Observatory (Robert M. Quimby, 2006; and Katie Humphrey, Austin-American Statesman, May 9, 2007) -- but became second brightest on October 10, 2007 after twice-as-bright Supernova 2005ap (see APOD; and Quimby et al, 2007).
The explosion reached a peak magnitude of -22 and was designated Supernova (SN) 2006gy. Its characteristics appear to be consistent with
theoretical predictions made about four decades ago, and so SN 2006gy may become the model for a new class of supernovae associated with the most massive (and possibly the first) stars born in the universe (NASA news release; CXC news release; UC Berkeley press release; CfA press release; APOD; Smith et al, 2007; Ofek et al, 2007and Prieto et al, 2006 -- more below). On August 13, 2007, two astronomers submitted a paper suggesting that SN2006gy underwent a subsequent neutron star to quark-nova stage that can explains its rise to extreme brightness, which may be slower than should be typical of pair-instability supernovae (Leahy and Ouyed, 2007; David Shiga, New Scientist, August 20, 2007 -- more below).
Everything is a theoretical prediction or observation. We need more data.
phylosphy
11/1/2007
10:49 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Space weather, by another report, had said the comet had exploded.This might mean, that as the comet came in, it heated and what was holding it together as a comet, expanded violently?
So, what is its trajectory and does this traveling comet, come anywhere near Earth?
Please and thanks
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
10:49 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Everything is a theoretical prediction or observation. We need more data.
Are you saying we don't already know it all?? Well that sort of poses a problem for some people.
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
10:54 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Has anyone written Keck or Chandra folks and asked them if they are imaging this? All they can do is answer. Maybe with the shuttle excitement they aren't even paying attention. You'd be shocked at what people miss when they are focused on something else. Like everything else. Suspend disbelief!
Ambilac
11/1/2007
11:00 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent - et al
Just a thought - or two!
Suppose for one minute we apply the theory that this 'comet' is a new member of our sol system - a budding planet in the making... holmes is certainly acting bizaare as to our known understanding of the comsos...
Also - suppose for one minute..that whatever that is out there, is not in fact the distance those guys who never give a straight answer (as they don't have one anyway) inform us - suppose it is MUCH nearer...will try and contact an astronomer friend to calculate..
And..finally (well, not really LOL) what about that interview with Father malachi? recall that one Kent!!!
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
11:00 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The plate that Kent offered, looks like a shadow image, of this object infront of the moon?Means they did not clear up the last picture, or moon is a rearafraction, of a double image.
Looks like a nova.If this is a nova, its ding dang close!
me
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
11:04 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The background on NASA tv of the space station, looked all pink, kind of a maroon, but lighter shade.
This was their nightime view.Wander if we are getting rads?
Ambilac
11/1/2007
11:09 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re - Father Malachi interview 1997
For those of you who did know of Father Malachi.,..noe deceased - here is a transcript I made of the show at the time
ather Malachi – “What is approaching us” Art Bell show April 5th 1997
Transcript from show (as taken by Howard Middleton-Jones)
ART – The Vatican has a very, very great deal of power.
Father – That’s right
ART - …We talked about it
Father – Yes we have
ART – Whether they admit it or not a great deal of power, all around the world.
Father – uh hm (confirming statement)
ART – One of the things they did, was to muscle, and I - I do intend to use that word,
Father -Yes
ART - they muscled their way onto a mountain in Arizona, Mount Graham.
Father – Yes
ART – And they built an observatory on Mount Graham, in connection with Arizona University Observatory, however, the Vatican has the larger part of this control of the observatory, looking at seep space things.
Father – That’s right.
ART – Now, why would they have done that father?
Father – Because, the mentality – attitude of those at the higher – highest levels of Vatican administration and Vatican seer (?) politics, know knowledge of what is going on in space and what’s approaching us could be of great import in the next 5 – 10 years.
ART – Carefully and well chosen words, thank you father.
Author’s note…. In Father Malachi’s last comment above, he hesitated after offering the 5 year time line, then adding 10 years…. remember, the 5 years would be in 2003.
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
11:20 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
when they spotted it the first time in 1892, they thought it was a comet...
the thing circles around the sun in the asteroid belt. so, isn´t it a bloody asteroid then?
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
11:21 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Interesting that it says it will have ramification for Eta Carinae.
Have you ever heard what the guy says about Eta Carinae at hiddenmeaning.com
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
11:32 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
BLUESTAR
11/1/2007
11:34 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Here is a fascinating story
[Here is a fascinating story Adriana spotted. It is fascinating. It appears to me this comet might have struck something near Mars which nobody expected - well that's my guess. Jan]
Astronomers worldwide are very excited about the astonishing explosion of comet P17/Holmes - discovered by UK astronomer Edwin Holmes in the late 19th century.This usually not very bright comet travels on a wide eclipsical track around the edge of our solar system.
On October 24, when it was nearest Mars, astronomers suddenly saw it brighten to a huge yellow/green ball which expanded and became so bright that it is now visible to the naked eye.Astronomers have been taking stunning photographs of it even from well-lit cities all over the world - from China to the UK, from Russia to Mexico.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
We've had at least two reports of a new star."
-------------
I had a dream about two suns in the sky once, a few years back. One appeared half the size of the other, the smaller one of the two was around 7 o clock to the bigger sun. I looked back on the earth and there were tornados/hurricanes everywhere. When I was back on the ground I could feel the earth shake beneath my feet.
Its an omen sire! wouldnt you say? lol
Emperor Kenton
11/1/2007
12:36 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
1892? Ahh, remember that well...
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
12:42 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Something's not quite right about this thread, or the photo.
The object superimposed over the remaining image of our moon, cant be a comet, if its nearing the sun.This process would have produced a tail, or some sort of trailing apparition, from the back?
*If you go out on a date and the woman says, "go ahead you can feel it". and you reach down and there's something long and pointed, then she wouldn't be a woman, would she.It looks like an image of a nova.Also the night images from the space station, show a red luminosity, all around the station?
poster
necramericanomicon
11/1/2007
12:48 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
wio, of wiolawapress.com, posted a thread about the comet being a reptilian battleship affair that was destroyed in a firefight...she actually took courses in astrophysics and the like under the tutelage of malin, the owner of the contractor to the jpl that has been given ownership of all jpl photographic and media output (he can censor as he sees fit):
i really hope they do something to eventually CENSURE all the scientists and astronomers who have lied to the public about what is in space.. a COMET DOESNT JUST EXPLODE INFRONT OF EARTH>> KIDS... it is a ship.. that was blown up.. there is WAR OUT THERE.. and the INTERGALACTIC FEDS DO NOT APPRECIATE THE SNAKE SHIPS RIDING IN FOR FREE TO CAUSE HUMANITY on this planet GRIEF!.. check out the exploded so called comet in the sky tonite.. brought to you by DR. SKY WITH HIS LIE! i think i analyzed HOLMES on my website.. it was a snake ship.. btw..
best one so far found.. http://mallincam.tripod.com/id36.html
here is a good one for analysis
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p305/rc.../17p1 c-Copy.jpg
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
BARDSQUILL: John Bortle has said that the head of the comet could continue to grow in size and may possibly reach the apparent size of the moon in our sky.
INTERNET BUDDY: uh huh
BARDSQUILL: what if it grows REALLY big, eh?
BARDSQUILL: fill half the sky, that'll generate some gasps
INTERNET BUDDY: it is a sign...
INTERNET BUDDY: it is not THE event...but i feel it is announcing the event
BARDSQUILL: Might keep watch for Jesus and his reindeer
INTERNET BUDDY: might keep watch for all kinds of strangeness...
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
drunken sailor
11/1/2007
12:57 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Sheesh!
It's just a comet. An odd one to be sure. I've been watching it through my 90MM wide-field.
Instead of inventing fiction around it, with some determination to turn it into evidence of yet one more conspiracy theory, why not enjoy it for what it is? An opportunity to witness nature at work.
We've only been watching the skies with sophisticated technology for some 100 years (at best). Don't you think that we are apt to see ever more interesting things going forward?
In a few weeks it will begin to wane and everyone will forget about it, moving on to the next suspicious and frightening thing. Dang but it's hard to get the superstitious types out of our system...
One pitcher is worth a thousand ears.
†flame†
11/1/2007
1:01 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
man DS, you're a downer today..
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
1:04 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
1892? Ahh, remember that well...
Apparently Aleister Crowley remembers it well too.
†flame†
11/1/2007
1:10 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
stranger than real life..
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
drunken sailor
11/1/2007
1:36 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
OK...it's the circus tent spaceship in Killer Klowns from Space.
Has the right colors...more or less.
One pitcher is worth a thousand ears.
†flame†
11/1/2007
1:37 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
yeah, I loved that movie!
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
1:39 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
This comet was a huge waste of time here. Hope it emplodes and rains on Venus or something.
Anonymous Coward
11/1/2007
2:18 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
There is math and geometry, that does not say that what is being shown here, is a comet.
One is, that what is being shown, is a spherical shell.So if forward momentum is being reached, then of course there would be distortion of this shell.
Looks to be either a nova, or an explosion of some sort.
spiraling
11/1/2007
3:46 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
~ good info
necramericanomicon
11/1/2007
11:28 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
maybe it was a warning shot over the bow of the powers that beast pentagoons...
since they have instigated a program of shooting down ufos of anybody who doesn't toe their line...whatever that is...or maybe they just want to scavage them for parts, electromechanical and biological
project fallen angel, it was called...
like those shoemaker-levy whatsises that plowed into jupiter...
whitley strieber said that back when it first was implemented, the aliens started shooting back after suffering some casualties...and the aliens were winning, until the pentagony boys called it off...for a while
SS
11/1/2007
11:43 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
For some reason this damn comet is starting to piss me off!
Best Regards from misty Poland! Michael Zolnowski-Tiamat linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/2/2007
12:03 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
It looks like the aftermath of a nuclear explosion.I don't know the why of why such an explosion would take place, but it looks more like an explosion, than a comet.It is starting to travel, as the left portion of the sphere is starting to deform.
Anonymous Coward
11/2/2007
12:07 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Rex has a big pussy.
SS
11/2/2007
12:14 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
i am sorry kent .. the comet will not be moving out of Perseus for awhile .. i just fast forwarded and it is going to saty in perseus spiraling around for a bit . in fact in january it will pass right over ALGOL and very near the supernova .. it moves out of perseus in march .. hope that helps .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Like I say, this comet is pissing me off, and as usual I try to use scientifically-correct jargon.
Comet Holmes composition:
C2 and NH2
http://www.spaceweather.com/comets/gallery_holmes_ page3.htm?PHPSESSID=df1be2qi1il4jnpenblkqfdnl1
Googling NH2 I keep coming up with amino acids
-NH2 A compound containing an amino group is called an amine.
http://www.bionewsonline.com/e/what_is_amino_acid. htm
So are we about to get soaked by space-god wee wee?
Or worse yet, are we all going to be inseminated and turn into two-faced Zog critters, like Dubya, Hillary and you know...
Ron Paul?
Eh?
Note:
How Comets Might Seed Planets
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/ dna_spacegerm_000124.html
Like giant interstellar sperm, comets might transport the seeds of life from collapsed space clouds to fledgling and otherwise barren planets, depositing their life-giving substances in a colossal impact.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/2/2007
10:06 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I think I'm starting to get it now, ready?
Well that damn comet is lined up with Perseus where I'm told it will continue to hover until next March, weird orbit thinks me.
Also Perseus is in our line of sight where there just so happened to be the biggest gol-dang brightest star explosion ever seen. The distant event, which remained brighter than an ordinary supernova for more than 200 days and likely represents a new and extremely rare type of star death that occurs only in supermassive stars.
You think the comet might be some sort of novel electric power relay station?
Naw, guess that's improbable, but then some say Loki is improbable although I chat with him regularly.
Remind me to pay my power bill.
-----------------------------------
Emp asks Loki, hey buddy why in the blazes would a puny comet light up [the electric model]
Loki spraketh:
"Ask Tom Edison or that old vamp Tesla... C2... unstable carbon... filament... mutter mutter"
Light bulb!
Aha!
------------------------------------
Ol man Tesla when he was out of money went around the country lighting himself up, sheesh!
Also Tessy gibbered about Radiant Energy, ETs and the Elohim-- now I get it, ELohim, ELectricity, ELectron, egads, he was a Evangelist for the church of EL!
Why do these eccentrics get to invent stuff, eh, Loki?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
These non-earth shattering comets are the biggest waste of bandwidth since Kevin was spamming us 24/7!
to all those who push this nonsense!
Emperor Kenton
11/2/2007
10:16 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Talked to a guy, a Republican Attorney for chrissakes.
He told me that when he was a teen the Ultraterrestrials made contact with him.
And to dazzle his realities, they totally rearranged the solar system for about ten minutes.
Actually the kid took it into stride, which left a most positive impression on these Cosmic Engineers. They stated that maybe the human race was maturing and ready for the really good stuff.
As for me I do love first hand accounts, a durn-sight better than more impermanent theories.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/2/2007
10:21 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Gee, wouldn't other people have noticed the planets being moved?
SS
11/2/2007
10:23 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
These non-earth shattering comets are the biggest waste of bandwidth since Kevin was spamming us 24/7!
flip to all those who push this nonsense!
do you have an factual evidence to back up your opinion ??? you see we are monitoring a very rare MEGA-OUTBURST event and gathering as much research data as we can .. what are you doing to help ??
kent .. i wonder if the comet spiraling around in perseus for several months might have something to do with the earth's orbit and our point of view of the comet ???
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
kent .. i wonder if the comet spiraling around in perseus for several months might have something to do with the earth's orbit and our point of view of the comet ???
----------------------
Proly, but I'm a mad-poet, specializing in limericks, thus logical thinking is less fun, not to mention it negates 99% of my life experiences which register no logic whatsoever.
Until that infernal comet edges out of Perseus I'm angry at it, sheesh, March, we'll be swimming in the corona by then. No fair.
P.S. I respect your work, SS, in fact the wee Kepler in me believes! But dammit if Holmes can outburst, so can I.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/2/2007
10:44 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Your monitoring of a useless and meaningless rock traveling around in space like a trillion trillion before it, is about the most worthless and senseless exercise as your sex life!!!!!
Monitor this:
Emperor Kenton
11/2/2007
10:48 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Your monitoring of a useless and meaningless rock traveling around in space like a trillion trillion before it, is about the most worthless and senseless exercise as your sex life!!!!!
----------------------
Well some misguided souls monitor Rudy and Hillary and Ron Paul who are all as ugly as toads.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
SS
11/2/2007
11:20 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
P.S. I respect your work, SS, in fact the wee Kepler in me believes! But dammit if Holmes can outburst, so can I.
well kent i guess the respect is mutual .. i always have alot of respect for good researchers .. there are so few .. you know i accidently found your website one day while researching back in 1999 which ultimately led me to elaine's GLP forum .. i am very happy to see you here just like good times at elaines GLP :)
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I'm not really a method-researcher, my background is in the arts.
What I am is a sort of Fortean-style spotter.
I love the edge of things and if there is no edge I'll make one.
An old hound dog, Spot, I skirt the rim of the field and drag stuff to the porch for the actually trained researchers to look at.
what a deal! I'm not a scientist, thank god because I can't remember it.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
SS
11/2/2007
11:47 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
well i definantly do ALOT of research .. some that never makes it to the forum .. i can pretty much do what most scientist can't and that is take data to the fringe and compare with other theories and sciences .. you see since i am not a scientist i am not bound within the box of mainstream theories like scientists who must remain within certain limitations or have their fundings cutoff ..
i have many theories i am developing for the secret order that will never be mainstream which is fine because secret order theories should remain more obscure and hidden than mainstream theories .. the secret order has it's own sciences and theories .. it is a school of thought .. i am working to advance secret order theories and sciences and they are dedicated specifically to the secret order .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
well i definantly do ALOT of research .. some that never makes it to the forum .. i can pretty much do what most scientist can't and that is take data to the fringe and compare with other theories and sciences ..
-------------------------
I'm an avid nut in sleuth of the ancient world.
Been looking again today at El Mirador one of the 2% of the lost Mayan cities that have been explored and excavated.
Raises a lot of questions, such as what made this culture go blonk, seemingly in one big blonk.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Ambilac
11/2/2007
4:46 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I noticed one or two of my postings disappeared for some bizarre reason??
Anyhoo - Kent - re- your amino acids...the whole so called 'comet' appears to be one large ball of DNA/RNA ripe for the start up of new life..
De-oxy and Ribose Nucleic acids (make of amino acids) are our very basic building blocks ...a new sperm of life seems to be knocking on our door! or, in this case, may come blasting through the door LOL.
BTW .while I rarely comment on these boards, as Kent will testify, who the heck is this 'rex' person... some out of school/time on hands/wet panties type of guy?? LOL.. I should ignore it..it may go away
Anonymous Coward
11/2/2007
4:49 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Rex is a flat chested 5Ƌ" woman with long black hair.
Anonymous Coward
11/2/2007
4:51 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
5' four or 5' five
Emperor Kenton
11/3/2007
5:19 pm EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
i am sorry kent .. the comet will not be moving out of Perseus for awhile .. i just fast forwarded and it is going to saty in perseus spiraling around for a bit . in fact in january it will pass right over ALGOL and very near the supernova .. it moves out of perseus in march .. hope that helps .
-----------------------------------
If so, seems like an amazing roulette wheel comet to remain in that line of sight so long.
Ummmm... you did say Algol... brings some pesky quatrains into my limerick mind.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/4/2007
12:21 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Above, the “Great Comet” of 1996, Hyakutake. The stunning discovery of X-ray emissions from the visitor was a milestone
in comet science, as was the discovery that the comet's coherent and filamentary ion tail spanned more than 350 million miles.
Comet 17P Holmes Online Petition
To: Humanity We the people, in order to gather more information about the anomaly comet that is Holmes 17P are hereby requesting that the following Space based Telescopes show us their pictures and or slew and track and take pictures of Comet 17P Holmes.
http://www.petitiononline.com/17P/petition.html
Chandra X-Ray Observatory: cxcpub@cfa.harvard.edu New Horizons Pluto Mission: Kerri.Beisser@jhuapl.edu Hubble Telescope: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/contact-us.cfm [online form] Cassini [orbits Saturn] http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/news/contact-us.cfm [online form] Spitzer Infrared Telescope: help@spitzer.caltech.edu
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/4/2007
1:52 am EDT
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
mebbe it's transitional like a quark and it's coming in from another dimension or parallel universe.
Ambilac
11/4/2007
3:21 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kento - I tried to sign that petition, but received an 'Access blocked' page
I informed the web originator and received an auto message that there is no ID assigned with that petition
??
Emperor Kenton
11/4/2007
6:08 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Hmmm...checking it out--best deal would be to go directly to
I signed my name
Kent Steadman
and my email address:
bardsquill@aol.com
Can see it here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi? 17P&1
at [click]: View Signatures
Anonymous Coward
11/4/2007
6:23 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VLMF5GM0Kt8
Emperor Kenton
11/4/2007
6:38 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I noticed one or two of my postings disappeared for some bizarre reason??
Anyhoo - Kent - re- your amino acids...the whole so called 'comet' appears to be one large ball of DNA/RNA ripe for the start up of new life..
De-oxy and Ribose Nucleic acids (make of amino acids) are our very basic building blocks ...a new sperm of life seems to be knocking on our door! or, in this case, may come blasting through the door LOL.
BTW .while I rarely comment on these boards, as Kent will testify, who the heck is this 'rex' person... some out of school/time on hands/wet panties type of guy?? LOL.. I should ignore it..it may go away
-------------------------------- Try Mike's board, requires registration; however Mike is a good friend and he is most eager towards these investigations:
http://dragger2k.powweb.com/community/index.php?bo ard=1.0
P.S. I tried my own board for a while, but after a few months of that grueling torturous ordeal, I became oddly distracted by dancing broccoli plants on my apartment walls.
Rex by comparison is most benign, more of an haiku Zen radish.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/4/2007
8:13 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Quote
Anyhoo - Kent - re- your amino acids...the whole so called 'comet' appears to be one large ball of DNA/RNA ripe for the start up of new life..
De-oxy and Ribose Nucleic acids (make of amino acids) are our very basic building blocks ...a new sperm of life seems to be knocking on our door! or, in this case, may come blasting through the door LOL.
Guys remember that experiment back in the 70's
when that chemist put the basic gases in a vessel then shot lightning in it. The vessel covered in amino acids. It seems to me that this comet is electrical in nature since all the amino acid detected in its spectrum.
Publius
11/5/2007
12:16 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
So why not bring in the other interesting comets. V-1 NEAT for instance.
I know merely Mercury sized, not larger than the Sun, but still....kinda funny that all this action is occuring right around now.
And Kent, you did notice as someone who I am sure read Olson if not the Olson Creely letters, that Caracol - the Mayan observatory, was shaped like a sea snail.
Olson spent much time down there and as a reader of Frobenius had his opinions about the Semetic contacts in the Mayan lowlands.
Anonymous Coward
11/5/2007
7:13 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
isn´t the planetary alignment coming in december?
maybe the comet is aproaching the "axis of gravity", and it tore one of the "caverns" open..?
just theorizing...
Anonymous Coward
11/5/2007
7:14 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
almanac this month
November Skywatch
Mercury has its year's-best morning showing during the first 24 days of the month. It's bright in the predawn east, but it can't approach the dazzle of higher-up Venus. The crescent Moon has a close encounter with Venus on the 5th, then floats below Mercury on the 8th, 40 minutes before sunrise. With its orbit temporarily more oval than usual, the Moon is at its farthest distance of the year—about 252,705 miles—on the 9th. A week later, Saturn makes a comeback and rises by 1:00 a.m. The big story is Mars, now brightening rapidly in Gemini and rising by 8:30 p.m at midmonth. The evening sky finds Jupiter sinking; it's conspicuous early in the month but very low by Thanksgiving
Emperor Kenton
11/5/2007
10:28 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent sighted comet through binnocs 11/5 at 6:30 PM. Awesome!
Terrible light pollution here, saw it anyway.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/5/2007
10:29 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
cool coot!!
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
12:23 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Does the sun have holes in its heliosphere at its poles like the Earth has in its magnetosphere? If it does, do they wander with the polarity flips in the cycle? Do we know anything about them?
I'm still wondering what cause the comet to outburst where/when it did. I was thinking if a comet was like a satellite it would get charged up as it passed a weak spot in the protective magnetic bubble.
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
1:20 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
All kinds of weird stuff going on up there around the sun including geometry, yep, geometry.
Hey had a bizarre experience tonight out looking at the comet through my binnocs.
There I was gazing away and my next door neighbor strolled out. I live in an apartment.
I asked him if he wanted to see too.
He said quite curtly, "no I don't do astronomy."
The idea freaked him out, almost visibly frightened, like if he saw it he wouldn't be able to believe his own eyes and would somehow be sucked into a devilish conspiracy.
After all the comet wasn't on Fox News.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
1:23 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Sucker grew a tail overnight and you can see it with the naked eye! What will it take to impress these monkeys?
†flame†
11/6/2007
1:24 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
the Universe scares people..
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
1:24 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
If it does, do they wander with the polarity flips in the cycle
Unlike a planet, the sun is a monopole.
And yes, it does wander about.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
3:22 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Unlike a planet, the sun is a monopole.
And yes, it does wander about.
OK, thanks. Now I get it. It's like something between a conch shell shape and a twirling ballerina skirt. So it has waves in its structure in addition to the holes.
So if the comet, being on an inclined plane type orbit, came up and out of one of the waves it would be like a satellite crossing one of our Van Allen belts.
Another thing I keep thinking about is a greater influx of hydrogen to the solar system and what it would do. I was just listening to C2C and Fred Bell was talking about hydrogen being the consciousness element. This is the first I've heard of someone making that connection but I've been thinking along those lines. If consciousness is a frequency and can be raised like sound like what happens to your voice when you inhale helium, hydrogen is similar.
Kent keeps getting grabbed by the make-up of the comet being amino acids. Something more to put in that pipe to smoke is the tie in of amino acids to neurotransmitters and consciousness and the influx of hydrogen from the G cloud.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
4:14 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:05 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I really just don't know.
I wish someone would tell us what this is imaging
Where the dark wave is yesterday was a swirling mass..
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
How fast is frontal shock waves traveling ?
speed of travel ?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
9:40 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Dr Clay from http://www.arksky.org/smf/index.php?topic=1437.0
site taken down.
It begins
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
9:46 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Hi gang ;)
Dr. Clay had been providing great infromations, and daily updates.
I hope his site is back and running soon ?
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
9:48 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
How fast is frontal shock waves traveling ?
speed of travel ?
----------------------------------
October 27, 28, 29, and 30
the expansion of the outer edge of the cloud: a speed of 660 m/s linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
9:52 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
thank Kent,
any ETA for reaching Mars ?
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
10:02 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
thank Kent,
any ETA for reaching Mars?
--------------------------
No, too hard for me to compute as distance to Mars is changing constantly.
I do wonder how it would affect Mars, whether C2 and NH2 dusting, or water in the more traditional model.
I keep going back to rover sites [Opportunity] and seeing images like this: linky poo
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
All kinds of weird stuff going on up there around the sun including geometry, yep, geometry.
Hey had a bizarre experience tonight out looking at the comet through my binnocs.
There I was gazing away and my next door neighbor strolled out. I live in an apartment.
I asked him if he wanted to see too.
He said quite curtly, "no I don't do astronomy."
The idea freaked him out, almost visibly frightened, like if he saw it he wouldn't be able to believe his own eyes and would somehow be sucked into a devilish conspiracy.
After all the comet wasn't on Fox News.
your neighbor thinks your evil kent and you were out looking at evil comets and obviously you were trying to drag him into viewing the evil comet with you .. how could you do that kent ??
i did the same thing except my friend eagerly wanted to see and was sure to point out the evil incoming galaxy/brane adromeda in the same vicinity ..
of course we do not think the comet winds are evil like our neighbor but those incoming andromedans are probably not coming to have a partying good time with us ..
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
AC 11/1/2007 11:38AM
In flames thread, she posted a Hopi prophecy:
"Poganghoya is the guardian of our North Pole and his Brother Palongawhoya is the guardian of the South pole. In the final days the Blue Star Katchina will come to be with his nephews and they will return the Earth to its natural rotation which is counter clock wise."
I also have dreamed of two suns. In my dream, the sun we know now still rises in the east and sets in the west. But the new sun (might be smaller) rises in the west and sets in the east.
That Hopi reference and your post reminded me of my dream. If Comet Holmes can surprise us with its dynamic action, then so can any other celestial body - especially if we are from SagDEG and not the Milky Way after all... another sun may not be so nutz. (I do not know how I can express it so that anyone else can ride this train of thought.)
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
10:57 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
vet/father,
I don't know what you are trying to do with that math, but I don't think it is correct. See Wikipedia, Speed of Sound: 344 m/s = 769 mph
?
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
11:35 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I am trying to figure ETA of shock waves(dust clouds?) to Mars, using the 660 m/s data.
sorry, I can't do it.
I only know this?
If P-17 is traveling and expanding at a rate of 660 m/s ? Thats @ 1,477 mph (+/-) a few...
The explosion occured near asteroid belt.
At that speed(@ mach 2) it would take years+
to reach Mars?
I am refering to speed of sound data.
It almost took 2 years for Voyager 1(1977) to reach Jupiter(1979)..@350 million miles from Earth..doing(speed) @ 35,000 mph.., which is ???
15,646 m/s ?
-----
The explosion occured @ 150 million miles from Earth, and @ 110 million miles from Mars.
----
If that data is right ?
660 m/s ?
It would take years for main body to reach Mars ?
---
I wonder how fast the small/large? asteroids are traveling. A blast that BIG must of effected those asteroids ?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
5:11 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kenton,
And in an article from Yahoo News, Brian Marsden, director emeritus of the Minor Planet Center, which tracks known comets and asteroids, has stated, "This is a terrific outburst. And since it doesn't have a tail right now, some observers have confused it with a nova. We've had at least two reports of a new star." And comet expert John Bortle has said that the head of the comet could continue to grow in size and may possibly reach the apparent size of the moon in our sky.
In your rushed and near-obsessive psychological need to prove the experts wrong, and yourself right, you missed something. Some observers have confused it with a nova. Nobody is saying that it isn't a comet. Your reading comprension skills definitely need to be improved.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
5:24 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
looking at new images it dose look like a new star being born ?
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
5:28 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
In your rushed and near-obsessive psychological need to prove the experts wrong, and yourself right, you missed something. Some observers have confused it with a nova. Nobody is saying that it isn't a comet. Your reading comprension skills definitely need to be improved.
---------------------------
I am in my advanced age and awesome accumulated wisdom now 51% right, which breaks the all-time World's record.
Think of it! With a loan of one million I could go to Vegas and over time make everybody as rich as the Rocketfellers unless of course I gamble on Puerto Vallarta instead.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
5:39 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Some confused observers have confused it with a nova.
I thought it was a Galaxy 500.
They should have consulted a gastronomist.
---------------------------------------
Why does it remind me of this:
[should consult tinfoil-hat-omist]
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
5:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
oh anything but a Duster.. puh leeze
Rex
11/6/2007
5:46 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Nuclear bombs in petri dishes. Pretty.
Do not believe anything I say.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
5:50 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
vet/father,
Okay -I see where you are going now. The thing is, nothing is stationary. The comet, Mars, Earth - each keeps moving on its own orbit. Now if the comet has produced large chunk asteroids from the megaoutburst, they will be propelled in whatever direction. You would need a serious computer program to compute the likelihood of any newly formed asteroids approaching Mars or Earth given their initial trajectories and speed, and the projected orbits and speeds of other bodies, to see where they might cross.
This comet went into megaoutburst in 1892 without producing any mass asteroid threat? And just as I was typing this and thinking the likelihood of being hit is needle-in-a-haystack small... I thought of
"The Tunguska event, sometimes called the Tunguska explosion, was a massive explosion that occurred near the Podkamennaya (Under Rock) Tunguska River in what is now Krasnoyarsk Krai of Russia, at 7:40 AM on June 30, 1908." (Wiki)
which was 16 years after the last megaoutburst of P17/Homes.
Interesting stuff. Thanks to whoever mentioned Tunguska lately.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
6:08 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kenton,
I am in my advanced age and awesome accumulated wisdom now 51% right, which breaks the all-time World's record.
I don't know what you call advanced age and "awesome accumulated wisdom", but I am two months short of having fifty-two years under my belt myself, and just remember something important: Knowledge is what you know, having wisdom is knowing how to use and apply that knowledge intelligently.
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
6:23 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I don't know what you call advanced age and "awesome accumulated wisdom", but I am two months short of having fifty-two years under my belt myself, and just remember something important: Knowledge is what you know, having wisdom is knowing how to use and apply that knowledge intelligently.
-----------------------------
I'm 65. See you have 13 more years to stuff wisdom here and there.
The really good thing is that as time wears on you forget where you stowed it which makes life much simpler.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Mrdjs7
11/6/2007
6:28 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
5:50 pm
Interesting stuff. Thanks to whoever mentioned Tunguska lately.
Seen on the news this past week that they might have found the crater on that thing in Tunguska.
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
6:29 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
By the way my best comet advice at the moment is to go outside and look at the damn thing.
Not crowded out there at night, nice and peaceful, everybody is inside watching O'Reilly.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Saxon
11/6/2007
6:33 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
How about this Kenton, as stated by Lucian on GLP. (I know, but still)
What if what we're looking at is an opening worm hole for the Mayan "hour of darkness" scheduled for the 19th of this month?
And out of this wormhole then could pile Lucifer and the fallen ones (Jesus and the Saints) for their expected "show".
(or reptilians or both for that matter)
Interesting no?
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
6:33 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Sheesh, Tunguska, scrolling up to read.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Mrdjs7
11/6/2007
6:35 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
If we didn't have so many clouds here EK, I'd go outside and look. Forecast for the Seattle area is for clouds and rain by Thursday?
Something like that. If I can get a clear shot up here in Lynnwood/Everett area, I will check it out.
Look North, right???
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
6:36 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kenton,
Adding to what I said above--From what I've read in your posts, you may have the knowledge, but you don't have the necessary associated wisdom to use that knowledge in a meaningful and constructive way.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
6:43 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Look NE. I had to wait until about 3 hours after sunset due to tress, hills, and city lights until it was really dark. You will need a clear sky.
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
6:48 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I saw the comet last night in Seattle at 6:30 PM. The light pollution was horrible including stadium lights around a soccer field directly NE where I had to look.
In fact with naked eye I couldn't see any stars in NE at all.
But I got out my 50 X binoculars that I bought back in the Hale Bopp era.
Then enough light was acquired to first see the stars. I looked up at about 35% and found Perseus and then tracked around near the constellation. Going left and down the big hazy blob went by.
I backtracked and there it was, Comet Holmes.
For you folks living out in the sticks, Holmes should be stunning, a huge dandelion going to seed, hangin there, plain as can be binocs or not.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
6:50 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kenton,
Adding to what I said above--From what I've read in your posts, you may have the knowledge, but you don't have the necessary associated wisdom to use that knowledge in a meaningful and constructive way.
------------------
MATTER=MYTH C²
Ask Sir Isaac the Alchemist.
The ultimate application of wisdom is to scare the hell out of rationalists.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
7:00 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thanks AC for those numbers, and facts.
At @ 660 m/s, almost 1,480 mph expanding rate.
It would travel @ 12 million miles in almost 5 years.
If the math is right ?
I got a feeling those numbers are wrong?
The 660 m/s numbers .
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
7:09 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Wisdom:
Astrophysics and reality must include...
...a slinky linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
7:13 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thanks AC for those numbers, and facts.
At @ 660 m/s, almost 1,480 mph expanding rate.
It would travel @ 12 million miles in almost 5 years.
------------------------
Hmmmm, when did Holmes outburst last?
Looking here at
7:40 AM on June 30, 1908
The Tunguska event, sometimes called the Tunguska explosion, was a massive explosion that occurred near the Podkamennaya (Under Rock) Tunguska River in what is now Krasnoyarsk Krai of Russia
Wonder where Holmes was then, how far out?
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
7:17 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, we can check Jpl 3D orbit for that info
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
7:17 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kenton,
I don't understand your MATTER=MYTH C-squared reference; and Newton blew it on his Alchemy research, since it (Alchemy) doesn't exist, but he made his biggest contributions in Classical Mechanics and Physics, Gravitation, Optics, and his co-devolopement of the Calcuus, all of which do exist, and all of which proves that he obviously had (a lot) more wisdom than you do. So what's your point?
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
7:18 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Well it ain't like there's a storm wall in empty space to buffer an explosion.
Maybe this current Algol-ian outburst might make it here by say....2012
Or aw hell, lets just be patient and wait for Eta Carinae to urp.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
7:21 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
It was line-up prefect with our orbital plane back in Nov of 1892.
It was 5.189 au from Earth in 1892(482 million miles)..Just inside Jupiter...can't be right..brb..
Jupiter is 365 million miles from Earth(Something is wrong with JPL numbers)
In 2007 its only 1.62 au from Earth.(@149 million miles)
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
7:27 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I don't understand your MATTER=MYTH C-squared reference; and Newton blew it on his Alchemy research, since it (Alchemy) doesn't exist, but he made his biggest contributions in Classical Mechanics and Physics, Gravitation, Optics, and his co-devolopement of the Calcuus, all of which do exist
-----------------------
That Classical stuff was to get the Royal Academy and probably the church off his back.
Sir Isaac Newton, the famous seventeenth-century mathematician and scientist, though not generally known as an alchemist, practiced the art with a passion. Though he wrote over a million words on the subject, after his death in 1727, the Royal Society deemed that they were "not fit to be printed." The papers were rediscovered in the middle of the twentieth century and most scholars now concede that Newton was first an foremost an alchemist. It is also becoming obvious that the inspiration for Newton's laws of light and theory of gravity came from his alchemical work.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
7:31 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
vet/father,
Not sure where you found the 660 m/s, but let's go with that:
MARS
-The comet is approx. 150,000,000 miles from Mars at the time of megaoutburst.
-If 344 m/s = 769 mph, then 660 m/s = 1475 mph.
-It would take 150ma/1475mph = 101,667 hours to travel to Mars
-There are 24 X 365 days = 8,760 hours per year.
-101,667 hours/8760 hrs per yr = 11.61 years
This is creepy:
EARTH
-The comet is approximately 2.2AU or 200,000,000 miles from Earth at the time of megaoutburst.
-If 344 m/s = 769 mph, then 660 m/s = 1475 mph.
-It would take 200ma/1475mph = 135,556 hours to travel to Earth
-There are 24 X 365 days = 8,760 hours per year.
-135,556 hours/8760 hrs per yr = 15.47 years
Even creepier:
Comet 17P/Holmes was discovered by Edwin Holmes on November 6, 1892. (almost exactly the same date as the last megaoutburst)
Tunguska Event June 30, 1908.
EXACTLY 15 1/2 YEARS AFTER THE THE LAST COMET 17P/HOMES MEGAOUTBURST.
Okay. Now I believe your Math. Is this what you are getting at?
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
7:34 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
EXACTLY 15 1/2 YEARS AFTER THE THE LAST COMET 17P/HOMES MEGAOUTBURST.
--------------------------
Yes, now that's the ticket!
Expansion of the outer edge of the cloud: a speed of 660 m/s
found at
Calvin Observatory linky poo
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/phys/observatory/im ages/CometHolmes/Dust.html
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
7:41 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
keith olberman just said it looks like a whole new solar system out there? wtf some promo.. i am watching now will let you know
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
7:54 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17P/Holmes
Aphelion distance 5.18 AU
Perihelion distance 2.05 AU
Perihelion - point nearest the Sun during its orbit. Last: May 4, 2007 Next March 22, 2014
Aphelion is the point of the orbit farthest from the Sun (and also therefore generally Earth, Mars, etc. ? in this elliptical orbit???)
Orbital Period: 6.88 (almost 7 years, shy 6 weeks)
Working backwards, (approximate) Perihelions:
03/22/14
05/04/07
06/15/00
07/28/93
09/09/86
10/22/79
12/03/72
01/15/66
02/27/59
04/10/52
05/23/45
07/05/38
08/17/31
09/28/24
11/10/17
12/23/10
02/04/04
December 24, 1897
November 6, 1890
so on November 6, 1892, it would not have been at perihelion (2.05 AU) or aphelion (5.18 AU). November 1892 outburst is 2 years after the perihelion so 2yrs/7yrs = .29 of the distance, which is about 3 AU at last megaoutburst.
If this is true, then why would the scientists be commenting that the megaoutburst occured because of the proximity to the sun melting the ice blah blah blah - what was the excuse for the last megaoutburst?
I know absolutely nothing - please carry on, please correct anything that is incorrect in this post, just following a rabbit hole becaue v/f caught my attention, so to speak
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
7:57 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Damn the math is wrong.
Its not 12 million within 5 years...
------
I started over.
1st. 660 m/s= @ 1,480 mph(check)
2nd. 1,480 mph X 60 minutes= 88,800 miles(check)
3rd. 88,800 X 24 hrs = 2,131,200 miles(check)
4th. 2,131,200 X 7 days =14,918,400 miles(check)
5th. 14,918,400 X 14 days = 29,836,800 miles(check)
6th. 29,836,800 X 30 days = 63,936,000 miles
**Earth to Mars is @ 36 million miles ***
Please tell me these numbers are wrong ?
" Explanation: Surprising Comet Holmes remains easily visible as a round, fuzzy cloud in the northern constellation Perseus. Skywatchers with telescopes, binoculars, or those that just decide to look up can enjoy the solar system's latest prodigy as it glides about 150 million kilometers from Earth"
150 km !
Another thought - while we may know the speed(force) as 660 m/s or whatever it is in this event, we do not know the speed (force) of the last event. In other words, even if asteroids chunks hit us 15.5 years later then, that does not necessarily mean anything in this event.
I give up for now. Be happy - I do not work at NASA either.
Who was that very smart GLP poster who knew about computers and physics? He would start threads to discuss the electric universe theory and do all kinds of higher math. Kiss avatar? That's who we need....
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:21 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kenton,
I don't understand your MATTER=MYTH C-squared reference; and Newton blew it on his Alchemy research, since it (Alchemy) doesn't exist, but he made his biggest contributions in Classical Mechanics and Physics, Gravitation, Optics, and his co-devolopement of the Calcuus, all of which do exist
-----------------------
That Classical stuff was to get the Royal Academy and probably the church off his back.
Newton the Alchemist
linky poo
Sir Isaac Newton, the famous seventeenth-century mathematician and scientist, though not generally known as an alchemist, practiced the art with a passion. Though he wrote over a million words on the subject, after his death in 1727, the Royal Society deemed that they were "not fit to be printed." The papers were rediscovered in the middle of the twentieth century and most scholars now concede that Newton was first an foremost an alchemist. It is also becoming obvious that the inspiration for Newton's laws of light and theory of gravity came from his alchemical work.
The point is that his research as an alchemist went absolutely nowhere, while his work as a scientist and mathematician survived, and is still around.
Now back to the comet--Answer me something. Comet 17P/Holmes' last perihelion was on May 4, 2007, or 6 months ago, and it's next (predicted) perihelion will be on March 22, 2014. That means that it has a period of 7 years, or 3 1/2 years out, 3 1/2 years back in. Now given those numbers, and the current point in time, how can it be coming in?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:24 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
660 m/s is the expansion rate of the dust cloud around the comet. There may have been some material ejected by the explosion that is moving at a much faster rate.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:35 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Newton kept his theological and alchemical papers secret from all but a few of his closest friends. When he died, his relatives, realising the explosive nature of the manuscripts, kept them from public view, despite the fact (and probably partly because of the fact) that antitrinitarians like William Whiston were clamouring for their publication. Add to this the fact that throughout the eighteenth century a series of secular apologists created an image of Newton and his science as iconic of rationalism, and it’s easy to see why the world for years had no idea that Newton was a heretic, a prophetic exegete and a practising alchemist. Until they were sold at Sotheby’s in London in 1936, Newton’s collateral descendants kept the theological and alchemical papers under lock and key, only occasionally allowing historical researchers to examine their contents.
After the 1936 sale, which was in many respects disastrous for Newton scholarship (at least temporarily), most of the manuscripts circulated for years in private hands before the majority of them eventually settled in academic libraries. Nevertheless, until the 1991 release of most of Newton’s scientific, theological, alchemical and administrative papers on microfilm, accessing these manuscripts was difficult and in some cases impossible. The recent accessibility of the manuscripts is the main reason why the study of Newton’s theology and alchemy is only now beginning to flourish. Added excitement is created every so often when some of the few scattered sheets in Newton’s hand remaining in private collections come up for auction. Small though they are, these documents continue to add to our knowledge of Newton’s theology and the relationship between his theology and his science.
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
8:35 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I think the numbers provided by AC are better than mine.
11 years sounds better
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
8:38 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The point is that his research as an alchemist went absolutely nowhere, while his work as a scientist and mathematician survived, and is still around.
--------------------------------
That's because as a side-effect Newton invented modern engineers who sometimes like to think of themselves as scientists.
Theoretical and experimental physicists are another breed of cat. I know one personally, a Los Alamos guy. He's more like the private Isaac and in fact defines himself as a shaman.
Shamanism, and Physics at its most fundamental level, share several essential philosophical elements and practical techniques.. Both involve and require an immersion of oneself into some feature or aspect of nature for an experience - i.e. direct experience... From such experience one then gains sacred knowledge, insight, guidance, healing and/or healing ability - that one then brings back for the benefit, support, and evoluion of one's people
Regardless he is way out on the edge professionally working on sustainable fusion and privately plotting the mathematics towards time-wave zero. linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:39 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
So the big space story on MSNBC Countdown was a new planet in another solar system.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:40 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Why would that material be traveling at a faster rate?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:43 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"660 m/s is the expansion rate of the dust cloud around the comet. There may have been some material ejected by the explosion that is moving at a much faster rate."
I had started to ask, but I figured v/f read it somewhere (660 m/s).
As to the other remark - astute, simple, exactly.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
8:55 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
the rate of speed of the comet isn't the rate of speed of the stuff ejected
it's a different physics problem that we can't solve because we don't know what caused the burst, what was behind it, what acted on it, etc. .. you can't deduce the answer without some more information
realize too that we only know what they tell us re: size distance etc. for all we know it's only a paper moon
Vet/Father
11/6/2007
9:06 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, new Opportunity Mars Rover, sol 1344 are up.
Looks bigger , and you can see the rings around the light.
I still am not sure if this is the Sun , or P-17 ?
It looks like a night-time image ?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/134 4/1N247515394EDN8788P1550L0M1.HTML
what say you ?
Mrdjs7
11/6/2007
9:46 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Rex
11/6/2007
6:39 pm
Send Private Msg
Add to Buddy List Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"Seen on the news this past week that they might have found the crater on that thing in Tunguska."
Lake Cheko in the Siberian region of Tunguska has recently emerged as a candidate for an “impact site”
linked to the famous Tunguska explosion of 1908. Credit: www-th.bo.infn.it/tunguska / University of Bologna
A team of Italian scientists has announced seismic evidence of what could be meteor fragments beneath Lake Cheko in Siberia--the first "solid evidence" of a Tunguska asteroid.
On June 30, 1908, a massive explosion detonated in the skies over Tunguska in northern Siberia. The resulting shock wave flattened some 60 million trees across 2000 square kilometers. The blast was heard hundreds of miles away and the cloud of dust colored the skies of the Northern Hemisphere for months afterwards.
The first expedition to investigate the region could not locate any sign of an impact event, nor did it recover any meteoric fragments. A later expedition, however, did uncover magnetite globules and various forms of silicate globules embedded in the earth and in the trees.
Most scientists eventually settled on either an icy comet explosively vaporized before reaching the surface, or a small rocky asteroid exploding in the atmosphere and leaving no appreciable fragments. But the absence of definitive evidence for an impact invited many exotic theories--ranging from “mirror-matter” or a tiny “quantum black hole,” to an exploding alien craft or a Nikola Tesla experiment gone awry.
In past discussions of the Tunguska event, our Picture of the Day editors have suggested electric discharge between a small comet or asteroid and the Earth. That suggestion was based on a wide variety of recorded physical effects and the testimony of human witnesses.
More recently, however, a team of Italian researchers has suggested that the 164-foot deep Lake Cheko, five miles northwest of the epicenter of the blast, could be the site of an impact by a meteor or a fragment of the body responsible for the devastating Tunguska event.
The team reported that 3D sonar images of the lake’s bottom indicate that it is funnel-shaped, something that might be expected of both an impactor and an electric discharge. Using seismic detectors, the University of Bologna scientists discovered an area of greater density beneath the lake, noting that this could indicate the remains of a meteor. "When we looked at the bottom of the lake, we measured seismic waves reflecting off of something," said Giuseppe Longo, a physicist at the University of Bologna in Italy and co-author of the study. "Nobody has found this before. We can only explain that and the shape of the lake as a low-velocity impact crater."
According to a report on the Space.com web site, however, some physicists are skeptical about the small size of the Lake Cheko crater. "We know from the entry physics that the largest and most energetic objects penetrate deepest," said David Morrison, an astronomer with NASA's Ames Research Center. Morrison wondered aloud why only a fragment of the main explosion would reach the ground to make a relatively small crater, while the greater portion would not create a larger main crater.
But Alan Harris, a planetary scientist at the Space Science Institute, points out that, in 1947, the Russian Sikhote-Alin meteorite created 100 small craters. Some were 20 meters (66 feet) across. A site in Poland also exists, he explained, where a large meteor exploded and created a series of small lakes. "If the fragment was traveling slowly enough, there's actually a good chance [the Italian team) will unearth some meteorite material," Harris said.
The researchers will return to Tunguska this summer with plans to drill beneath the bottom of Lake Cheko, hoping to find a meteorite. From an Electric Universe perspective, if the Tunguska explosion was the result of an electric discharge, a meteor fragment may indeed be found, pointing to the source of the discharge. But more likely, the increased density beneath the lake could be the signature of the electric arc that excavated the depression, producing the fused sands and soils of a fulgurite.
SS
11/6/2007
10:09 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
hello guys .. here is a starmap of the "MEGA-OUTBURST" of 1892 ..
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
cheers
Emperor Kenton
11/6/2007
10:20 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, new Opportunity Mars Rover, sol 1344 are up.
Looks bigger , and you can see the rings around the light.
I still am not sure if this is the Sun , or P-17 ?
It looks like a night-time image ?
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/1/n/134 4/1N247515394EDN8788P1550L0M1.HTML
I always reckoned these to be the Sol shots linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
11:12 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
If only Richard C. H could help
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
11:13 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Have there been any news of this on C2C, yet ?
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
11:31 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Here's a tidbit:
Because Comet 17P/Holmes has almost a 7 year orbit, and Earth has of course a 1 year orbit, and Mars at 687 days is just about 2 years.... The Sun, Earth, Mars and the Comet line up about the same way and distance every 7 years. But this year, as in 1892, there was the megaoutburst....nice.
Anonymous Coward
11/6/2007
11:35 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"Lake Cheko
In June of 2007 it was announced that scientists from the University of Bologna had identified a lake in the Tunguska region as a possible impact crater from the event. Lake Cheko is a small bowl shaped lake approximately 8 kilometers north-north-west of the epicenter. [12] The hypothesis has been challenged by other impact crater specialists. [13] A 1961 investigation had dismissed a modern origin of Lake Cheko, saying that the presence of meters thick silt deposits at the lake's bed suggests an age of at least 5000 years.[14] Casting further doubt on the "Cheko Crater" hypothesis, Vasilyev's "Testimony of Eyewitnesses to the Tunguska Impact"[15] contains three separate accounts (by Kulik's Evenki guide Lyuchetkan, L. V. Dzhenkoul, and V. N. Dmitriev) indicating that Lake Cheko was a well-known landmark on the Strelka-Vanavara trail long before the Tunguska Event, hence could not have been formed by the impact."
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, I think those mars images are of P-17?
They look like night time, sunset images ?
I might be wrong ?
===========================
Very well could be the sun. Don't know.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
SS
11/7/2007
9:05 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Because Comet 17P/Holmes has almost a 7 year orbit, and Earth has of course a 1 year orbit, and Mars at 687 days is just about 2 years.... The Sun, Earth, Mars and the Comet line up about the same way and distance every 7 years. But this year, as in 1892, there was the megaoutburst....nice.
in 1892 the comet was along the ecliptic in leo .. this year it is well above the ecliptic in perseus .. however .. the "MEGA-OUTBURST" did occur in the same month of November .
On June 10, 1892, beams as if from a searchlight were projected from Mars to Earth, a phenomenon that was witnessed again in 1928 and the winter of 1936 by French astronomers and confirmed by Professor Robert Damion, an astronomer and editor of a then popular scientific journal. And on August 3, 1892, witnesses in Manchester and Loughborough, England, saw rapid flashes of light on Mars that were not aurorae. At least from this period through 1936, occasional "flaming up" of a "queer bluish light" was noticed on the Martian surface, recurring at regular intervals for up to forty seconds. Brilliant, clearly defined bright spots of temporary duration, in locations of obviously nonrandom distribution, were reported by astronomers to be moving or changing color in 1890, 1892, 1894, 1900, 1911, 1924, 1937, 1952, 1954, 1967, and 1971. Transient, intensely dark spots were witnessed on the planet's surface in 1925, 1952, and 1954.
Emperor Kenton
11/7/2007
9:48 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
FRIEND: any more news
BARDSQUILL: The International Space Station and the Space Shuttle Discovery (both represented by the line) fly below Comet Holmes
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/071105/ids_photos_wl/r 517942698.jpg
BARDSQUILL: Woke up this morning with the thought A hole in the placenta
FRIEND: a hole?
BARDSQUILL: white hole
FRIEND: as opposite to a black hole/
BARDSQUILL: membrane universe slant on things
FRIEND: so along the sides of the cosmic egg?
BARDSQUILL: a white hole is the positive pole in an Einsten-Rosen bridge
BARDSQUILL: Wonder what the lads at Cern are doing with their new supercollider?
FRIEND: attracting the sun's nemisis
FRIEND: question, is there a website that details the global shift in magnetic north
FRIEND: want to see if there is a correlation between the speed of the movement of the mag north compared to the increase in comet activity
BARDSQUILL: well some think comets are antimatter, so if we already have a sliver of antimatter in the solar system space-time placenta, maybe the zit popped.
BARDSQUILL: damn, I don't know, just having a wake up time brain fart.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/7/2007
10:04 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
There are alot of meteorite showers reports in 1893 too.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
10:26 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
posted by SS:
in 1892 the comet was along the ecliptic in leo .. this year it is well above the ecliptic in perseus .. however .. the "MEGA-OUTBURST" did occur in the same month of November .
So glad you are all here - and SS - thanks for the map!
Holmes was studying the Andromeda Galaxy which is approx. 0 hour and +30 (near Lacerte and Perseus), while Leo as you have shown is approx. 11 hour and +15.
This makes sense if the perihelion was about November 1890 and the megaoutburst was 2 years later in November 1892 (2/7 years along its orbit).
(Comare at the current perihelion of May 2007 and only 6 months later this megaoutbrust late October 2007: e.g. much closer to the Sun, Earth and Mars at this event).
Question: Do you know approx. how far away Comet 17P/Holmes was from Earth in November 1892 if it was past Leo somewhere?
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
10:30 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Very interesting read at rense this AM (don't miss this):
sample: "The reason for astronomers' amazement is that, given the comet's distance from the Sun, solar heating cannot offer a plausible explanation for the eruption. Worse than that, it has been moving AWAY from the Sun! So now, astronomers trying to explain these anomalies have begun grasping at straws. After a bit of hair tearing, the most common speculation is that the source of the outburst is "sinkholes" in the comet nucleus. But the trivial, almost immeasurable, gravity of a comet could hardly justify this "explanation" -- no force is available to cause the surface to "sink"!
The only other "explanation" could be that another object struck the comet, a scenario that, by the astronomers' own estimates, is virtually inconceivable. ...."
Makes me feel all better about my lack of knowledge - the experts don't know either...
SS
11/7/2007
10:47 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Question: Do you know approx. how far away Comet 17P/Holmes was from Earth in November 1892 if it was past Leo somewhere?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
sample: "The reason for astronomers' amazement is that, given the comet's distance from the Sun, solar heating cannot offer a plausible explanation for the eruption. Worse than that, it has been moving AWAY from the Sun! So now, astronomers trying to explain these anomalies have begun grasping at straws. After a bit of hair tearing, the most common speculation is that the source of the outburst is "sinkholes" in the comet nucleus. But the trivial, almost immeasurable, gravity of a comet could hardly justify this "explanation" -- no force is available to cause the surface to "sink"!
unless the "sinkhole" were caused by a "MEGA-JET" but then we have to know what cause the "MEGA-JET" to occur ..
The asteroid belt is the region of the Solar System located roughly between the orbits of the planets Mars and Jupiter.... (isn't that the same area as Comet 17P ?)
Asteroid orbits continue to be appreciably perturbed whenever their period of revolution about the Sun forms an orbital resonance with Jupiter. At these orbital distances, a Kirkwood gap occurs as they are swept into different orbits....
The high population of the main belt makes for a very active environment, where collisions between asteroids occur frequently (on astronomical time scales)....
In effect, asteroids that become located in such gap orbits (either primordially because of the migration of Jupiter's orbit,[43] or due to prior perturbations or collisions) are gradually nudged into different, random orbits with a larger or smaller semi-major axis.... (so at any given moment, astronomers only know the position and orbit of the largest asteroids)[/i}
Some of the debris from collisions can form meteoroids that enter the Earth's atmosphere.[48] More than 99.8 percent of the 30,000 meteorites found on Earth to date are believed to have originated in the asteroid belt.[49] A September 2007 study by a joint US-Czech team has suggested that a large-body collision undergone by the asteroid 298 Baptistina sent a number of fragments into the inner solar system. The impacts of these fragments are believed to have created both the Tycho crater on the Moon and the Chicxulub crater in Mexico, the remnant of the massive impact which triggered the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago....
-------------------------------------------
I am reminded of riding a skateboard - where you could hit small pieces of gravel and only experience a bumpy ride, but there is that certain size of rock while still small, causes the wheels to stop cold and you fall off.
Or perhaps how we drive cars and hit all kinds of dust and insects and so on, but there is that certain rock while still very small, cracks your windshield. Which btw, may only cause a small deformity in the glass, but when the windshield was hot on a summer day and I put cold water on it, the small deformity which had been there for some time, suddenly cracked the entire vertical length of the glass. It is a "clean" crack, and seems to be holding for now, but another factor (heat, cold, small rock) could cause the entire windshield to fragment.
Just thinking...did P17 hit an asteroid? It might not need to be a very large observable one at all considering the speed (?) of the comet to sheer off a piece?
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
11:07 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
think fragment
linky poo
Wow, Kent. I had wondered about some of those blips and flashes in the many photos now available webwide. I had wondered if those were background stars or fragments or dust or what.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
11:27 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
vet/father,
Great photos and info at your link.
You and I are thinking some of the same things - i.e., Palomar Observatory is down (I had family evacuated from near there in the fire) and I also thought of the Heaven's Gate group from Rancho Santa Fe (actually I thought this might be a great time to start your own "religion" but the castration part was over the top - someone remind D.O. you-know-who.)
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
11:49 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Here's some way back comet stuff
1770
Swedish astronomer Anders Johan Lexell [b. Äbo, Sweden, December 24, 1740, d. St. Petersburg, Russia, December 11, 1784] is the first to observe a short-period comet, but Jupiter's gravity flings the comet into space before it can return.
Anders Johan Lexell
Anders Johan Lexell (December 24 1740 – December 11 1784 (Julian calendar: November 30)) was a Finland-Swedish-born Russian astronomer and mathematician. In Russian he is known as Andrei Ivanovich Leksel (Андрей Иванови& #1095; Лексель) . His name is also given as Anders Johann Lexell or even Johann Anders Lexell.
He emigrated to Russia in 1768. He studied the motions of comets. He computed the orbit of comet "D/1770 L1" (Lexell), and it is named after him although it was discovered by Charles Messier.
This comet made the closest known approach to Earth by any comet in history (although asteroids have come closer), making it the first known near-Earth object; the exact distance is not known but has been estimated to have been within 3 million km.
Lexell showed that the comet had had a much larger perihelion distance until an encounter with Jupiter in 1767, and he predicted that, after encountering Jupiter again at an even closer distance two revolutions later, in 1779, it would be altogether expelled from the inner solar system.
He was also the first to compute the orbit of Uranus soon after its discovery and realized from its orbit that it was a planet rather than a comet. He also found that Uranus was being
perturbed and deduced the existence of another planet (the eventual Neptune), although the position of Neptune was not calculated until much later by Urbain Le Verrier.
The asteroid 2004 Lexell is named in his honour.
†flame†
11/7/2007
11:54 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
this is a great thread.
bumpy.
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
†flame†
11/7/2007
12:01 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
by the way..what's the newest picture of the comet?
anybody?
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
12:02 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
unless the "sinkhole" were caused by a "MEGA-JET" but then we have to know what cause the "MEGA-JET" to occur ..-SS
Wouldn't a mega-jet act as a mega-thruster and change the comets orbit enough to be detected after a short time? Did the outburst begin lopsided or symmetrically circular?
I don't know chemistry but what mixture of elements would be needed to show an outburst like that? Can't that be determined in light wavelength? Couldn't that give a clue as to what kind of catalyst would be needed to set it off?
†flame†
11/7/2007
12:04 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
are any of the asteroids wandering around north of the ecliptic ??? if the asteroids are mostly at the ecliptic that would lower the possibility of a collision with an asteroid as the cause of the current "MEGA-OUTBURST" ..
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Wouldn't a mega-jet act as a mega-thruster and change the comets orbit enough to be detected after a short time? Did the outburst begin lopsided or symmetrically circular?
well no it wouldn't .. it's not like a jet rocket thruster but rather it is more like an electrical arc in the plasma sheath .. i am pretty sure that is how i understand it .
If this is a fragment, is it moving faster than the gaseous cloud is expanding (660 m/s)?
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
12:33 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I went over the basic math. If you are clear on 110 ma miles at 660 m/s, then it takes about 8.5 years to travel that distance at that speed.
660 meters/second
= .410105 miles/second
= 1476.38 miles per hour (check, checked, rechecked)
24 hours per day X 365 days per year
= 8760 hours per year
110,000,000 miles/1476.38 miles per hour
=74,507 hours
74,507 hours/8760 hours per year
= 8.5 yearstext
Those numbers 660 m/s was from Oct 30th. I think those numbers are wrong, just looking at daily images show it to much faster than 660 m/s. More like 1000 m/s+.
astrolabe-redux
11/7/2007
12:38 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"anybody of you know the diameter of this thing?
Pi" [Quote 666]
Prolly Phi.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
12:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Those numbers 660 m/s was from Oct 30th. I think those numbers are wrong, just looking at daily images show it to much faster than 660 m/s. More like 1000 m/s+.
I have read different reports all over, but they are comparing it to the diameter of Jupiter, a known number (86,000 miles). Do we know how many days/hours it took to expand to that size? Then we could easily calculate a speed and check that.
For instance, if it 3 days to grow to 86,000 miles, 3 days = 72 hours, and the speed would be 1194.44 mph.
??? T/F, recalc?
Emperor Kenton
11/7/2007
12:56 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Several articles coming in from wizards.
World Traveler:
DEATH BY COMET REVISITED By Bruce L. Raphael November 6, 2007 linky poo
Cosmologist:
THE RIGHT ARM OF PERSEUS by Rush Allen linky poo
Pyramidologist:
Bacterium, THE CLEANSING BY JAMES MICHAEL WILKIE linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
1:00 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Check the last paragraph.
Hubble caught that little ditty.
Tut's gem hints at space impact
Thing of beauty: Tutankhamun's Pectoral with desert glass scarab
Tutankhamun's gem
In 1996 in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo, Italian mineralogist Vincenzo de Michele spotted an unusual yellow-green gem in the middle of one of Tutankhamun's necklaces.
The jewel was tested and found to be glass, but intriguingly it is older than the earliest Egyptian civilisation.
Working with Egyptian geologist Aly Barakat, they traced its origins to unexplained chunks of glass found scattered in the sand in a remote region of the Sahara Desert.
But the glass is itself a scientific enigma. How did it get to be there and who or what made it?
The BBC Horizon programme has reported an extraordinary new theory linking Tutankhamun's gem with a meteor.
Sky of fire
An Austrian astrochemist Christian Koeberl had established that the glass had been formed at a temperature so hot that there could be only one known cause: a meteorite impacting with Earth. And yet there were no signs of a suitable impact crater, even in satellite images.
American geophysicist John Wasson is another scientist interested in the origins of the glass. He suggested a solution that came directly from the forests of Siberia.
"When the thought came to me that it required a hot sky, I thought immediately of the Tunguska event," he told Horizon.
In 1908, a massive explosion flattened 80 million trees in Tunguska, Siberia.
Although there was no sign of a meteorite impact, scientists now think an extraterrestrial object of some kind must have exploded above Tunguska. Wasson wondered if a similar aerial burst could have produced enough heat to turn the ground to glass in the Egyptian desert.
Jupiter clue
The first atomic bomb detonation, at the Trinity site in New Mexico in 1945, created a thin layer of glass on the sand. But the area of glass in the Egyptian desert is vastly bigger.
Whatever happened in Egypt must have been much more powerful than an atomic bomb.
Boslough's specialism is modelling large impacts
Impact simulation
A natural airburst of that magnitude was unheard of until, in 1994, scientists watched as comet Shoemaker-Levy collided with Jupiter.
It exploded in the Jovian atmosphere, and the Hubble telescope recorded the largest incandescent fireball ever witnessed rising over Jupiter's horizon.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
1:12 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
shards of glass at Tunguska:
I talked to the brainiac last night, and he hypothesized the same as your article - heat from incoming turned the soil to sand.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
1:14 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
shards of glass at Tunguska:
I talked to the brainiac last night, and he hypothesized the same as your article - heat from incoming turned the soil/sand to glass.
oops. fixed.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
1:29 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thanks, SS! That puts them all in perspective. My first interest was the alignment of Sun-Earth-Mars, but it is somewhat irrelevant at the moment of the outburst event because all the positions will change over the time needed to travel any given distance at any given speed.
Need to study more about the Kirkwood Gap - see the position of Jupiter compared the comet at the time of both events. (I keep comparing the two orbital maps and I feel like there is an elephant that I cannot SEE? Anyone?)
vet/father, this is why I told you you would need a powerful computer program that could extrapolate data for speed and trajectory compared to the position of Mars or Earth at any given future time. For instance, if the speed/distance is 8.5 years to Mars (where Mars is today) - where exactly is Mars going to be in its own orbit at that time (in 8.5 years)? See SS's 1892 map and note location of Earth. If the Comet outburst had anything to do with Tunguska (e.g.), you would need the location of Earth on June 30, 1908, and you could back into the trajectory and speed from the point SS has shown for the megaoutburst (assuming no other influence like Jupiter changed its course).
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
1:32 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
you know ,my theory is the moment we have it "all figgered out" poof!
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
1:46 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
isn´t the planetary alignment coming in december?
maybe the comet is aproaching the "axis of gravity", and it tore one of the "caverns" open..?
just theorizing...
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
3:05 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
shown distance from point of megaoutburst to position of Earth at that time 5.19 AU
from that point to estimated position of Earth on June 30, 1908 ??? between 3 AU and 5.19 AU and 15.67 years
3 AU, 15.67 years = 2032.50 mph
4 AU, 15.67 years = 2710 mph
5.19 AU, 15.67 years = 3387.50 mph
If A/C is right that 660 m/s (= 1476 mph) is too slow, and the current event speed is closer to 1000 m/s (= 2450 mph)....and it is also possible that a solid fragment or hit-and-deflected asteroid is hurtling through space faster than the cloud of near-zero mass ions which are drawn eventually into the Sun anyway....
Okay - that's possible then. The speeds are in the range that the megaoutburst of 1892 could have possibly have led to the Tunguska event (assuming the object was on the correct trajectory to intersect Earth at just that moment).
If they had the means to observe this comet in 1892, wouldn't they have had the means to observe any other large enough asteroid collision that had occurred, a large enough object headed very fast toward Earth, knowing that more than 99.8 percent of the 30,000 meteorites found on Earth to date are believed to have originated in the asteroid belt?
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
3:39 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
ISTI MIRANT STELLA
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
5:12 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
There are alot of meteorite showers reports in 1893 too.
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
7:27 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Vet/Father
11/7/2007
7:30 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I went over the basic math. If you are clear on 110 ma miles at 660 m/s, then it takes about 8.5 years to travel that distance at that speed.
660 meters/second
= .410105 miles/second
= 1476.38 miles per hour (check, checked, rechecked)
24 hours per day X 365 days per year
= 8760 hours per year
110,000,000 miles/1476.38 miles per hour
=74,507 hours
74,507 hours/8760 hours per year
= 8.5 years
-------------------------------------------
Thanks for those numbers, I just finished reading another report that states the rate of expansion , during the early stages where higher than that is being reported.
Here's another report with a image of what it would look like Earth and P-17 side by side, before Oct 31st.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Whats with the Doom VET Father...11/11/07? Apologies if I missed it being said before.
Just a strong feeling I have. I call this the point of no return.
Yes... I would say prepare yourselfs as best as possible... if you can ?
You have the time now. The public is in the dark about this event, so lets see what happens in the days that follows.
Vet/Father
11/7/2007
8:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Just a strong feeling I have. I call this the point of no return.
Yes... I would say prepare yourselfs as best as possible... if you can ?
You have the time now. The public is in the dark about this event, so lets see what happens in the days that follows.
Alot of you now are feeling something is wrong now, before this was all fun and games, but now you see this object(s) coming this way like a big fireball, and you know that it have asteroids in front of it...
brb
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Anonymous Coward
11/7/2007
8:48 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
doesn't 1111 mean monitor your thoughts?
Vet/Father
11/7/2007
8:53 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
To me...11:11 means...
Jeremiah, Ch 11, ver 11...
and if you read ver 10...
you will understand where I come from.
I'd said it for years, and years a country that destroys its fathers will be punish. God made man and woman to love each other not destroy each other. I won't go there anymore. I will stay on topic and cover this major event with you all til ?
Number
111
Energy flow. Enhancing whatever level you are in presently.
222
Resurrection and ascension process.
333
Decision number. Either directs you into a phase of 999 completion, or negativity, it puts you in the 666 frequency which throws you back into the third dimension.
444
This is an actual resurrection number. You have just completed an important phase.
555
Experiencing the energy or a level of Christ Consciousness, very significant.
666
Material World. Third dimensional frequency. Denseness.
777
Symbolizes an integration of some portion of the four lower bodies with higher spiritual frequencies within the third dimensional plane, or at the level in which you are manifesting your physical reality on the Earth Plane.
888
Symbolizes infinity. The unified spiral of the physical merging with the spiritual. Moving toward the completion of the ascension process through the energies of 222 and 444.
999
Symbolizes the three levels of the triune. Completion.
000
Great void. Experiencing a Null Zone. Switching or moving into a new energy field.
11:11
Beginning of a whole new level or phase of development. Another dimension or frequency of experience. A portal way opening.
12:12
A cosmic connection. A bridge to the future. Signifies a level of completion or graduation.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
According to astronomers.
This comet orbit lies between Mars and Jupiter.
Its diameter is 3.4 km. It never comes closer to the Earth than 1.06 AU.
Uh,ok.
How comes I can see its nucleus with a naked eye amid heavy city light pollution.
I think the "comet" is much closer than what some are saying.
Thanks
Alex Tribeck
11/8/2007
1:01 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
How comes I can see its nucleus with a naked eye amid heavy city light pollution.
I think the "comet" is much closer than what some are saying.
What is a comet MEGA_OUTBURST???
alex: that is correct for $500, What catagory would you like your next question?
uh ok comet holmes again for $1000 please.
alex: ding ding ding!! you know what that sound means, the daily double!! Ok for $2000, the comet is much closer than what some are saying.
uh ok what people who are wrong say about comet holmes??
alex: your RIGHT for $2000!!! Your on a roll here TD!!
Td
11/8/2007
2:22 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Td: Alex, next question please.
Alex: Ok Td. If, the "comet" is much closer than previously said. How long before average Joe takes notice of that huge thing out there?
Uh?
Marginal Marge
11/8/2007
2:23 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
What does God say about all this?
Out there on the margins
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
3:53 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Which god?
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
4:58 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
ok posted
well now...
it seems to me that if....
just if..a comet were coming straight towards the earth...
well the tail would be directly behind it...
so..we would not see the tail..
the tail would be there...just directly behind it.
so now..IF that is indeed..a traditional comet...
then that bad mama jama be comin straight at us.
Hard to conceptualize, but it's very far away. And you are riding on Earth, which is also moving. It would take years for any debris from this comet to reach us in terms of distance regardless of speed, and we could be anywhere at that moment when any debris crosses our path of revolution around the sun.
On the other hand...
I was researching asteroid craters and such here on Earth. I was surprised to read these discoveries are only so recent in the last century. See how pockmarked the Moon is from asteroid collisions? The Earth has been hit much more than that (greater size alone, in pure randomness), but the Earth has so many dynamic variables like wind, water, erosion, tectonic plates, volcanos, and then oceans and vegetation as a covering - our collisions with asteroids are "hidden". On a positive note, we have an atmosphere that causes many to bounce back into space and others to enter our atmosphere but burn up.
Right here in AZ, nice photos, impact of a 50-meter asteroid, compare at Tunguska estimated to be 50-60 meters exploded object:
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
What does God say about all this?
What God always says about such things -- always be prepared to step into eternity.
MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
5:34 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
A/C posted:
This thing is coming this way, and it is still growing. Now bigger than the Sun.
I think this is 2012
The diameter of the Sun is 864,000 miles.
This began 2 weeks ago = 14 days = 336 hours.
864,000 miles in 336 hours = 2571 mph
At that speed, an object would intersect the point Earth is at right now in 6.66 years (7/1/2013) - but Earth will be at some other point on that date and not where the debris field has crossed.
If you think debris from this comet can hit us on 12/12/12 (in 5.13 years), at 150,000,000 miles being the shortest possible distance from the point of megaoutburst to the Earth's position on that date (it is farther but use 150ma for now), then any debris object would have to travel at 3337.87 mph.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
5:37 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Does anyone else have the sense of a giant cosmic pinball machine?
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
6:00 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
It will be solid cloudy for a good 4 days right where I live.
Can anyone please update me on this thread about the size of this thing?
:hellokitty:
borrisnorris
11/8/2007
7:18 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Anybody know how powerful the explosion was to create a coma this size?
A friend with weed is a friend indeed.
nolomolistari
11/8/2007
7:21 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
powerful?
a handfull of babypowder would refract the same, once spread out.
MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
dragon
11/8/2007
8:37 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Holmes' orbit has changed since the outburst, related parameters is now the top secret!
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
8:40 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
my my my
I was in denial. I thought if I kept looking I would find something. They are constantly updating all of these pages, so if you have a good eye and scan just a couple times a day sometimes you catch things. It really doesn't take much time if you have the right bookmarks, as I am sure you all know.
I know they all know we are all looking. If I had a telescope. I mean, I have a rinky dink one, we have had two.. I mean like the Keck telescope. That's the ticket. We should ask one of the private foundations to do it for us.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
8:45 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
well keck is out but if any of you have a friend at one of the sanctioned universities you might be able to wrangle something out of them..
I mean, what if something big comes along, I bet they aren't having classes all night long. Someone over there is looking at whatever they want. A lot of someones are looking and some of them could come and give us some cut and paste
Applying for Keck Telescope Time
Each user community, UC, Caltech, NASA, UH, NOAO, Gemini, and Subaru has its own internal requirements regarding deadlines for submittal of proposals and information required to apply for time on the Keck telescopes. However, regardless of the institution to which the user applies, he/she should complete the WMKO Proposal Cover Sheet Form and submit it, along with the individual institution request forms, to the appropriate TAC. This form is used, once a given proposal has been allotted time by its TAC, to concatenate the approved time assignments into the master schedule. Observers will be notified by the appropriate TAC of the fate of their proposal and time assignments if the proposal was accepted. Telescope schedules will be posted on the W.M. Keck Observatory web pages approximately two months before the beginning of the semester.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
9:29 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
That is pretty amazing it it bigger than the sun now.
11:11
11/8/2007
9:33 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Only three more days till 11:11
†flame†
11/8/2007
9:38 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
compulsivebuilttospiller
11/8/2007
9:40 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
every thousand years
this metal sphere
ten times the size of Jupiter
floats just a few yards past the earth
you climb on your roof
and take a swipe at it
with a single feather
hit it once every thousand years
`til you've worn it down
to the size of a pea
yeah I'd say that's a long time
but it's only half a blink
in the place you're gonna be
where you gonna be
where will you spend eternity
I'm gonna be perfect from now on
I'm gonna be perfect starting now
stop making that sound
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
9:43 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Only three more days till 11:11
And only 368 more days until the next one.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:05 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Gentlemen,
I would like to have a semi-scientific answer.
Is this thing coming towards earth or not?
Thanks and good night
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:05 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The reason everyone is silent about this comet is because obviously they are freaking out on what they are seeing.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:07 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Is this thing coming towards earth or not?
I think what they are saying is that a fragment might be incoming from the comet.
:cartman:
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:09 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
†flame†
11/8/2007
10:10 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:12 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
We know absolutely nothing about the birth and formation of celestial objects.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:28 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Jellyfish larger than the sun?? That sounds big to me.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:29 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I think what they are saying is that a fragment might be incoming from the comet.
Who are they?
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:30 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
We know absolutely nothing about the birth and formation of celestial objects.
Talk for yourself
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:30 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I don't think that's a comet.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:31 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Talk for yourself
Speaking for myself, you are no astrophysicist, so don't even bother to try to bs me.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:33 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
nice link flame
Alex Tribeck
11/8/2007
10:33 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Alex: I don't think that is a comet.
Uh ok what people do who have no brains??
Alex: Why that is absolutely right what people do not do who have no brains is exactly what we was looking for.
†flame†
11/8/2007
10:35 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
but is it bigger than a breadbox?
"She could never be a saint,
but she thought she could be a martyr if they killed her quick"
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:35 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Oh look it's Mr Science. He has a Master's Degree, in Science!
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:37 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Is the vatican looking at this comet?
They have 2 observatories, ya know?
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:41 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I don't think that is a comet.
You see we break down what he says:
I don't think
that is a comet.
Well the first part is a dead giveaway because he is admitting he does not think. So obviously he has no brains to think with. He can't think it is a comet since he has no brains and already admitted it he does not think. Thinking people have brains. This person is most likely a computer simulated person who does not think. It is very interesting what people will tell you.
A thinking person says it like this:
I think that is a comet.
Can you detect the subtle difference?
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I don' t have any vatican connections that i know of..
at one time perhaps
jesuits are all about throwing light on the subject
being a woman, i doubt i could talk them into it but one of you young men..
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
you maroons!
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:45 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
No it isn't a deduction based on empirical data, it that's what you mean. It's an opinion based on an observation, hence the qualifier, "i don't think" it is more of a feeling when people start there sentences this way.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:46 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
That is one big comet.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:55 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Or whatever this particular celestial object is. Not dirty snowball boyz.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:57 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Blue Kachina?
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
10:57 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Ah so.
Anonymous Coward
11/8/2007
11:39 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
nat geo deep space probe show
promo
... how eventually it will die on now
getting elemental about atoms
and our growing universe
he says we are stardust
†flame†
11/9/2007
12:35 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
we are golden?
"My god, it's full of stars,
This heaven surrounding my silence
Tis full of fire, icy brilliant,
This satin sky filling my soul."
mcubik
11/9/2007
12:37 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
and maybe its the time of year
and maybe its the time of man
and i dont know who i am
but life is for
learnin
peace
nolomolistari
11/9/2007
12:48 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
...have you guys been going over to the hysterical site?
Shame.
Just a refresher...there are objects in space that are enormously big.
Big as the solar system.
But guess what...if you stood inside them you'd never know it unless your eyesight was really really good.
You might wonder why it seemed a little foggy at far distances, but there'd be basically nothing to see close up.
Particles that far apart, occupying that much space; if you took all the distance from the individual pieces, might be as big as bus, or maybe even big as an island if the overall globe of particles were particularly dense.
With all this talk of luminosity, nobody has been able to say what the density of this nebulous cloud is.
A HUGE CLOUD OF GHOSTLY SMOKE IS HEADED RIGHT FOR US!!!
...just doesn't quite get the panic juices flowing, if you know what I mean....
MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
†flame†
11/9/2007
12:51 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
more like a powderpuff exploded..
"My god, it's full of stars,
This heaven surrounding my silence
Tis full of fire, icy brilliant,
This satin sky filling my soul."
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
2:00 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Get a grip people, it is a comet. Some real info, not wild speculation dreamed up by "royal" types. Take special note of the first paragraph under "Discovery" (seems that now isn't the first time that the thing has had a sudden increase in brightness):
The law of gravity, however, seems to be becoming an obsolete law in starry heaven. At any rate those long-haired sidereal radicals, called comets, appear to be very poor respecters of the majesty of that law, and to beard it quite impudently. Nevertheless, and though presenting in nearly every respect "phenomena not yet fully understood," comets and meteors are credited by the believers in modern Science with obeying the same laws and consisting of the same matter, "as the Suns, stars and nebulae," and even "the earth and its inhabitants." (Laing's "Modern Science and Modern Thought.")
This is what one might call taking things on trust, aye, even to blind faith. But exact Science is not to be questioned, and he who rejects the hypotheses imagined by her students -- gravitation, for instance -- would be regarded as an ignorant fool for it; yet we are told by the just cited author a queer legend from the scientific annals. "The comet of 1811 had a tail 120 millions of miles in length and 25 millions of miles in diameter at the widest part, while the diameter of the nucleus was about 127,000 miles, more than ten times that of the earth." He tells us, "in order that bodies of this magnitude, passing near the earth, should not affect its motion or change the length of the year by even a single second, their actual substance must be inconceivably rare. . . ." It must be so indeed, yet: --
". . . . . The extreme tenuity of a comet's mass is also proved by the phenomenon of the tail, which, as the comet approaches the sun, is thrown out sometimes to a length of 90 millions of miles in a few hours. And what is remarkable, THIS TAIL IS THROWN OUT AGAINST THE FORCE OF GRAVITY by some repulsive force, probably electrical, so that it always points away from the Sun (!!!) And yet, thin as the matter of comets must be, IT OBEYS THE COMMON LAW OF GRAVITY (!?), and whether the comet revolves in an orbit within that of the outer planets, or shoots off into the abysses of Space, and returns only after hundreds of years, its path is, at each instant, regulated by the same force as that which causes an apple to fall to the ground." (Ibid, p. 17.)
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Only three more days till 11:11
And only 368 more days until the next one.
hmmm right but will there be a MEGA-OUTBURST in 368 days like this current 11:11 and the 11:11 of 1892 ???? odds are kinda against it i think .. just pointing out the obvious .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
From flame's excellent link (nightskyhunter). Absolutely fascinating.
"From the estimated mass of the ejected particles it could be concluded that it may belong to a companion that was initially part of the nucleus. The idea that such a companion disintegrated completely is supported by the nearly symmetrical outer dust halo, expanding at an average rate (based on measurements by Clay posted to a Yahoo mailing list. From this the start of the event can be derived as Oct. 23.8 UT.
No I'll cite, because of the recently discussion of the nature of the tails: The expanding parallel streaks of light observed at position angles of 210-220 deg (essentially along the extended radius vector) are the tails consisting of microscopic dust particles released during and after the fragments' separation, after most dust was injected into the outer halo. Only one of these tails starts from the nucleus condensation, the other three (or more) appear to emanate from "nothing" as their parent bodies, the above-mentioned fragments, are too faint to observe."
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
1:13 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I wanted to mention some things about the Mayan 2012 in regards to this comet event:
1. The Mayans or anyone would have no way to know of this comet megaoutburst event in the past by observations and calculations. So this comet megaoutburst cannot relate to the woo-woo 2012.
2. If you have never read about the theory that our solar system is not part of the Milky Way, but actually within the SagDEG; and that the SagDEG with 'us' in it is intersecting the Milky Way; and all the implications thereof, then I would direct you to read this great thread (even if you hate the whores) -
When I read that, it occurred to me that the Mayan 2012 is their 'end' point of calcualtions after which they could no longer estimate because they understood that observations would be different, not that time would 'end' in a catclysmic manner. JMHO
-----------------------------------------
I do not believe this comet has anything to do with 2012 and it is meaningless to this event - JMHO.
†flame†
11/9/2007
1:45 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"My god, it's full of stars,
This heaven surrounding my silence
Tis full of fire, icy brilliant,
This satin sky filling my soul."
SS
11/9/2007
1:57 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I wanted to mention some things about the Mayan 2012 in regards to this comet event:
1. The Mayans or anyone would have no way to know of this comet megaoutburst event in the past by observations and calculations. So this comet megaoutburst cannot relate to the woo-woo 2012.
2. If you have never read about the theory that our solar system is not part of the Milky Way, but actually within the SagDEG; and that the SagDEG with 'us' in it is intersecting the Milky Way; and all the implications thereof, then I would direct you to read this great thread (even if you hate the whores) -
linky poo
When I read that, it occurred to me that the Mayan 2012 is their 'end' point of calcualtions after which they could no longer estimate because they understood that observations would be different, not that time would 'end' in a catclysmic manner. JMHO
-----------------------------------------
I do not believe this comet has anything to do with 2012 and it is meaningless to this event - JMHO.
well i think we are going to require more data to back up your opinion here rather than your assumption you are right and anyone who does not agree are woowoo's ..
" Again, I set the way-back machine this time for 20 June 760 C.E., 20:00. If you were a Mayan chieftain, here is what you would see facing due west from the Pyramid of the Magician in Uxmal:
What you would see is Halley's Comet! And not just Halley's Comet, but the comet in close conjunction with a crescent moon and brilliant Venus, all appearing close to the summer solstice. And higher in the sky appeared Jupiter on the same sight-line. This would be a show of the century. Now, the Pyramid of the Magician at Uxmal likely was built before this celestial event. But the western sighting line established here to track the setting of Venus at the summer solstice surely garnered far greater interest when Halley appeared, especially as it was in conjunction with the Moon and Venus and in line with Jupiter. It must have been an amazing, supernatural sight.
On this date, Venus appeared especially bright (magnitude -4.5 according to Dance of the Planets, and -5.3 according to EZCosmos). The moon, at 19.14 degrees altitude and 282.50 azimuth (a bit north of true west), was 0.13 full or in a young waxing crescent stage. Jupiter itself was brilliant, at magnitude -2.1 (EZCosmos estimate).
MORE SURPRISES
The year 760 was astronomically special at the greater Uxmal/Merida area for yet another reason: a flurry of eclipses, which the Mayans tracked religiously (in both the figurative and true senses).
- A total solar eclipse occurred there on 21 February at 12:58:55 UT (06:58:55 local time) (only the first phase of this eclipse would have been visible before the sun set locally);
- an annular solar eclipse occurred on 15 August at 15:36:60 UT (09:36 local time); and
- a partial (near-total) lunar eclipse occurred on 31 August (0.941 total) at 04:31:03 UT (22:36 local time).
And another partial lunar eclipse also occurred that year on 6 March (0.895 total) at 16:10:41 UT (10:36 local time) but this was not fully visible locally.
SUMMARY
In summary, then, it is apparent that key astronomical events observable by, and salient to, the unaided eye, seem to correspond with potential archeoastronomical orientations of buildings and sight-lines at Uxmal. "
so obviously if any comet "MEGA-OUTBURST" like this one did anytime in the ancient days the mayan would easily have seen it in their dark skies .. if i can see it from the city lights then how do you figure a mayan archeoastronomers would miss it ???
now your claim the mayans could not calculate this and that and because of this comet cannot be part of anything you claim is woowoo .. well obviously they probably could not make the prediction like you said but then you are also beginning to nitpick the details and have totally ignored the quantum law of uncertainty which basically states that there is a chance of something occurring .. of course i am making no claims regarding the 2012 subject but merely touching upon the physics behind what you are talking about .
regarding SGR being part of the milky way is is intersting to note that the mayan "HUNAB KU" (the galactic core center) lies in the direction of SGR and Scorpio .. isn't that amazing how SGR lined up perfectly with the galactic core of the Milky Way ?? that is amazing ..
why the mayan calender end at any specific date is pure speculation .. unless of course you expect us to just take you for your word ?? i personally have not studied enough into the 2012 subject to make any kind of speculation like you have made ..
so with that i think we can conclude that it is yourself who is the woowoo here .. there was lot's woowoos used to think the world was round at one time too .. can you believe those woowoos actually thought the world was round at one time when it was obvious the world was flat ??
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
so with that i think we can conclude that it is yourself who is the woowoo here .. there was lot's woowoos used to think the world was round at one time too .. can you believe those woowoos actually thought the world was round at one time when it was obvious the world was flat ??
.
' Welcome to My Nightmare '
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
2:41 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
flame posted:
it's tail broke!!
<ouch> link
scream
Flame!
great photo
So who can speculate on what happened there?
My first thought is that now some trajectory for the larger fragments that were creating that (those) tail(s) can be estimated (eg, a trajectory that is not the same as the main comet's orbit).
My second thought is that the comet's orbital path has been altered, but that sems less likely.
More thoughts? Any links to smart opinions?
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
3:03 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Wow, SS. You are overreacting to my post.
I said, JMHO, and gave you a link to a theory, and clearly stated that the theory caused me to think X about the Mayan 2012 date. Is it okay with you if I express a thought or idea or do I need your permission? Sorry, I do not cut and paste to my thoughts. Ad hominen attack from you is merely what it is and emanating from YOU and on that.
Regardless, I will stand by my post that the Mayans, "great astronomers" though they may have been, were not capable of predicting a megaoutburst of a comet at some point in the future that would lead to the extinction of life on this planet and end of time in 2012 (which some woo-woos believe because their calender ends at that point) given the various theories of why a megaoutburst occurs. That they may have predicted the end of time due to something other than this comet, sure. No one knows, you , me, or Stephen Hawkings.
I am as woo-woo as they come, and I would be much more concerned that the behavior of this comet may lead to a Tunguska or Wormwood event in the not too distant future.
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
3:07 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
it´s an asteroid... isn´t it?
an alien ship was parked on it. and some other aliens blew it to dust!
SS
11/9/2007
3:25 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Wow, SS. You are overreacting to my post.
I said, JMHO, and gave you a link to a theory, and clearly stated that the theory caused me to think X about the Mayan 2012 date. Is it okay with you if I express a thought or idea or do I need your permission? Sorry, I do not cut and paste to my thoughts. Ad hominen attack from you is merely what it is and emanating from YOU and flip on that.
Regardless, I will stand by my post that the Mayans, "great astronomers" though they may have been, were not capable of predicting a megaoutburst of a comet at some point in the future that would lead to the extinction of life on this planet and end of time in 2012 (which some woo-woos believe because their calender ends at that point) given the various theories of why a megaoutburst occurs. That they may have predicted the end of time due to something other than this comet, sure. No one knows, you , me, or Stephen Hawkings.
I am as woo-woo as they come, and I would be much more concerned that the behavior of this comet may lead to a Tunguska or Wormwood event in the not too distant future.
i was talking to the guy calling everyone woowoos .. are you the one calling everyone woowoos without providing any data to back up your opinion/speculation ??? i figure if that person can call people woowoos then i can just go ahead and call him on it ..
the person calling everyone woowoos has overlooked quantum physics theories in his assumptions .. he seems to believe that the mayan predicted every single detail leading up to the end of their calender and i am sure they could not do that since the Quantum Law of Uncertainty states that there is only a chance of something to happen so would be impossible for them to predict every single detail .. i think they did more observations of current details than they did predicting future details ..
so to claim this comet has nothing to do with anything is pure speculation .. i think the fact it has "MEGA-OUTBURST" twice during an 11:11 alignment is very interesting ..
of course i am not suggesting it does have anything to do with 2012 since i have not researched into the subject .. i have been to busy making other observations atm .
you can post whatever you want but if your going to call us all woowoos be sure you have something to backup your speculation and opinion or someone just might call you on it .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I am as woo-woo as they come, and I would be much more concerned that the behavior of this comet may lead to a Tunguska or Wormwood event in the not too distant future.
i agree with you there is a chance that could occur .. join me to the woowoo club .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
For fucks sake.
I have been reading on these boards for 10 years that we are all gonna die on 12/12/2012. I posted the link to PWR because I found that theory comforting in respect to why the Mayan calender may end in 2012 - not due to calamity, but to an end of a cycle, end of an ability to calculate, because the position of our solar system relative to everything else as observed from our planet may be changing.
If you or anyone feels insulted by use of the word woo-woo, sorry. I think of woo-woo and tinfoilhat as greatly complimentary.
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
5:30 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
may belong to a companion that was initially part of the nucleus.
------------------------------
Indications of multiple cores or concentrated gas clouds.
Image: linky poo
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Massive ejection into space
"Is Comet 17P/Holmes losing its tail?" asks Italian astronomer Paolo Berardi. "Last night I recorded an image showing a big disconnection event that was not present on Nov 8th." See below: linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
6:09 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
THEN can we stop calling it a comet?
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
6:13 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
^333
SS
11/9/2007
6:34 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I have been reading on these boards for 10 years that we are all gonna die on 12/12/2012. I posted the link to PWR because I found that theory comforting in respect to why the Mayan calender may end in 2012 - not due to calamity, but to an end of a cycle, end of an ability to calculate, because the position of our solar system relative to everything else as observed from our planet may be changing.
If you or anyone feels insulted by use of the word woo-woo, sorry. I think of woo-woo and tinfoilhat as greatly complimentary.
if they stopped calculating at 2012 then they seem to have picked an interesting period since that would be the time of the next solar maximum .. the sun lost it's polarity last solar cycle which has caused more space dust to enter the inner solar system .. how that all will play out will be interesting .
if they were following the precession of the ecliptic then they probably were aware of a continuous change of our perspective .. this particular comet "MEGA-OUTBURST" twice during 11:11 alignments would indicate to me a precession event ..
you said there could be no relation to 2012 just because the mayans could not predict it .. well if there is an alignment in 2012 then it involves the precession .. what science is this that you use to exclude certain events from the ongoing precession of the temple ???
i am not sure what you are talking about everyone dying in 2012 ?? my perception of "TIME" is probably different than yours .. here is a thread similar to the subject you are talking about i think:
i really do not know alot about this mayan calender .. i do not use it myself .. i have no reason to consider any particular date as the end or beginning of anything .. i am not much for predictions but rather observation .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Massive ejection into space
"Is Comet 17P/Holmes losing its tail?" asks Italian astronomer Paolo Berardi. "Last night I recorded an image showing a big disconnection event that was not present on Nov 8th." See below:
linky poo
i think this comet did not display a tail but rather that was the ejection of debris when the comet "MEGA-OUTBURST" .. we saw the same ejection of debris with SW3 .. some comets just do not produce the same kind of tails as others .. periodics that have a more circular orbit than the long period comets seem to not produce the same long tails all the time .. so i am not convinced yet that ejected debris is actually a tail .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
what's your gut feeling on this SS?
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
8:36 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
EMAIL:
Date: 11/9/2007 1:23:50 P.M. Pacific Standard Time
The recent outburst of Comet 17P Holmes was shown in English crop pictures two years ago: both its stellar location in Perseus on October 25, 2007, and its conjunction with Mirfak on November 21, 2007 linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
†flame†
11/9/2007
8:37 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
now that is a cool link..
"My god, it's full of stars,
This heaven surrounding my silence
Tis full of fire, icy brilliant,
This satin sky filling my soul."
Rocket man
11/9/2007
8:46 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
jim mccanney on Holmes
thought of the day from November 03, 2007
November 03, 2007 posting #2 ... regarding Comet Holmes ... i stated in earlier postings that i would make direct measurements regarding whether this comet was in fact comet holmes or not ... tonight on my third night of observations i must conclude that the comet that is visible off the lower side of the constellation perseus very much appears to be our historical friend comet holmes ... the orbit does match the comet holmes orbit ... a few observations ... we are looking into the nose side of the comet and therefore any sunward spike activity is not easily visible ... only if there would be and extremely long discharge would we see it from our vantage point ... secondly this puppy is not going away and is as bright tonight as it was last night ... note we are seeing a storm Hurricane Noel picking up the pace and other tropical storm activity on the central american coast ... geee ... NOAA ... what a coincidence AGAIN ... i am really starting to think that this comet nucleus is much larger than the standard science reading of just 2 miles across ... do we have a new planet forming out there ??? i checked and although this comet has encountered jupiter a number of times in the past and had its orbit changed ... this will not happen with this comet holmes again for a very long time ... i bet NASA has ordered radio astronomical measurements to determine the exact size of this comet nucleus BUT what is strange is that there is little or no official NASA word on this comet ... certainly every available telescope on earth and above have taken data ... so why all the lack of data from NASA ... x-rays ... the Hubble ... the infrared space based telescopes ... the many big scopes on earth ... the mil scopes on haleakala used for detailed tracking to measure orbital changes ... all these are certainly busy ... but you the public will not see a smidgen from these facilities ... so in light of this i made an estimate based on some assumptions of NASA bad science ... if they used ALBEDO (solar light reflectivity) and absolute brightness measured at some time in the past of this comet to determine its "size" and estimating that they used the snowy white nucleus assumption to state that the nucleus size would only be a few miles across ... AND the understanding that a pure black comet nucleus giving the same absolute brightness could in fact then be thousands of times larger ... we could have a comet here with a nucleus hundreds of miles across or even larger ... comet nuclei are much more difficult to measure directly since they are enshrouded in their tales and not directly visible as would be as asteroid ... given the size of this comet's coma and its duration after the electrical alignment with the inner planets ... there is a remote possibility that this comet has a much larger nucleus than the 2 miles stated in officialdom news releases ... keep posted here for updates ... jim mccanney
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
8:52 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
jim mccanney
http://www.jmccanneyscience.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
9:10 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The first introduction of the outburst event at spaceweather.com
Comet 17P/Holmes is one of the strangest things ever to explode in the night sky. It's a comet, yet it looks like a planet with a golden core and a green atmosphere. It grows visibly from night to night and no one knows how large it will become.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
†flame†
11/9/2007
9:12 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
is it really gonna become a planet?
"My god, it's full of stars,
This heaven surrounding my silence
Tis full of fire, icy brilliant,
This satin sky filling my soul."
cyberspaceorbit cadet
11/9/2007
9:18 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Comet 17P/Holmes is one of the strangest things ever to explode in the night sky. It's a comet, yet it looks like a planet with a golden core and a green atmosphere. It grows visibly from night to night and no one knows how large it will become.
=============================
sounds almost as bad as lighting cyberspaceorbit commander kentoid's farts...
i can't remember a golden core to them...the green atmosphere was maybe the tinge our faces got on them when he would rip out a real monster and then put his zippo to it...the thane of methane, he was
cyberspaceorbit cadet
11/9/2007
9:23 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
should have attached those fins to him while he was asleep and then waited to see if he could attain orbital velocity on franks n beans nite...
would have been almost as impressive as "bear" being catapulted through the crack o doom by the industrial trolls in "chasing shadow"
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
9:29 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Awesome adventures in parallel worlds, true, depending on how wide your drapes are drawn: is earth the deeper dream, the hiding place for stray shadows?
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
9:42 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
All the beavers circled around the launch site. Hundreds of flaming torches glimmered in the night. The full moon frowned in the sky. It was thirty seconds to "blast-off" and counting.
Bear and Leah were cupped in twin bucket seats way back at the tip of the arm of the giant catapult. The launching arm was cocked and ready. Timbers strained, creaking.
Professor Beaver gripped the trigger pull-string. Standing next to the professor, Benjamin Beaver observing his pocket watch recited, "twenty-eight, twenty-seven, twenty-six. . ."
Leah was right in the thick of scolding. "Just calm down, Bear! Why do you always have to worry so much?"
Hunched up in the bucket seat, Bear was covering his face with his paws. "Leah," Bear gasped through nervous lips, "haven't you ever heard of, 'one percent'?"
"Of course, it's arithmetic. I know all about that stuff."
Bear uncovered one eye. "Yes, but this has to do with a certain kind of arithmetic. Let me explain. . ."
Leah interrupted sharply, "Bear, this is about the dumbest time ever for explanations. At least we're going to have a real fun ride, an adventure! Lately I've been getting bad bored, too many stupid meetings!"
Professor Beaver nodded his head to the count-down. His paws twitched at the trigger string. Benjamin Beaver swung his arm in cadence, counting: five, four, three, two, one, BLAST OFF!"
Silence filled the night. Nothing happened! With frustration the professor yanked repeatedly at the string, but the trigger remained stuck.
Up above, Bear sighed with relief. "All right," he roared. "it's about time somebody got some sense around here. The launch has been canceled!"
Leah huffed, "oh, Bear, you are so negative. Probably they all just took their evening tea break."
Bear puzzled. "Tea break? Now?" He scooted around to peer over the back of his seat.
A flurry of activity boiled below. About a dozen Beavers strained at the trigger string.
The professor hollered, "pull together now. Heave ho!"
"Oh no," croaked Bear.
The trigger snapped loose. The mighty catapult swished forward in a blur. A violent wind screamed. The ground quaked. The catapult EXPLODED! Huge logs flew everywhere. Beavers scrambled for cover.
Bear and Leah disappeared into the night sky.
---------------------------------
Lieutenant Pete Rodriguez and Sergeant Virgil Oakie patrolled the suburbs in Sheriff's Department Chopper Number One. It was a slow and serene night; there had been no calls.
Rodriguez turned to Oakie. "These new birds are sure cherry, man. A lot better than those crates we flew in the Gulf. I sure would like to gun it a little, you know, see what it could really do."
"Tell ye what," Oakie said, "why don't y' jest go right ahead n' gun it. I sure as heck ain't gonna tell. Give it some juice, pardner."
"Rodriguez glinted. "I'm sure tempted. Too stinkin' bad we don' have us an emergency, would give me an excuse."
Oakie scratched his fat jowls. "Well, by cracky, we kin always buzz thet farm out in North Sanger where all them hairy beatniks hang out. There's probably some durned emergency goin' on right now, heh, bein' it's Saturday night party time. Yep, I betcha they's bustin' a whole slew o' laws. After all, we has had a bunch of complaints frum th' neighbors 'bout loud music and skinny-dippin' in the creek."
Rodriguez grinned impishly. "Well then, what're we waiting for, man? Let's go scatter us some skinny-dippers."
They flew to the creek and went raring low, cruising east out into the farmlands. Rodriguez was heavy on the throttle. Oakie pointed. "There's thet beatnik joint, ahead there to th' right of th' bridge." High tension lines cut across Fancher Creek to run along the road in front of an old-time farmhouse.
"Hold-on, Amigo, I show you some big-time search n' destroy!"
Rodriguez had returned to combat once again. He nosed the bird down to skim water. The chopper zoomed under the power lines and fanned over the house with a sky-hook turn. As the craft hovered its searchlight flooded the yard below.
"Yeeehaw," Oakie whooped, "durned fancy maneuver there, Pete, ol' buddy. I done thought we was goin' ta git barbeeequed by them power lines."
"Nah, man," Rodriguez grunted, "used to pull stunts like that everyday. Looks like the enemy has jumped camp though."
Oakie agreed, "yep, there's usually a dozen vans n' pickem-up trucks parked around. Wonder where there they all is?"
A sudden blinking light, well, two lights, flooded the cockpit. The patrolmen grabbed for their regulation sunglasses. They beheld an eerie sight. Streaking down showering trails of sparks zoomed two bright fireballs. The twin flames whooshed past mere yards from the window glass of the chopper. Both patrolmen stiffened, stunned.
The glowing fireballs hit the roof of the house, bounced back and hit again melting right through the shingles to disappear.
The sputtering of the engine revived Rodriguez from momentary shock. Wildly he worked at the throttle trying to get air-speed as red warning lights blazed, but the engine coughed and died. The smoking chopper angled back into the orchard. Blades shattered on tree limbs. The craft sank behind bony branches and fell. Dust settled.
"Ohhh," Rodriguez groaned, shaking-off numbness, "we busted the stinkin' ship. . . guess we gonna get our behinds busted too."
"Busted? Busted heck," Oakie gurgled, "this here is a 'situation!' I'm a gittin' on th' phone ta headquarters. We need reinforcements." He grabbed the phone, but the radio was dead.
"Now what," Rodriguez wheezed.
Undoing his seat belt, Oakie craned around too see. He pointed to a neighboring house. "We is jest gonna have ta trot ourselves over there n' use their phone."
Rodriguez asked, "don't you think we ought ta case this place first?"
"No sir, no sir, not until we git us some help!"
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
cyberspaceorbit cadet
11/9/2007
9:43 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
by "the plug", you must mean that cork we tried in you one night
remember how it wicked riccocheted around for some tense moments there...
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
10:16 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Sorry folks but, 2012.
The actual 2012 is still 70 years into the future.
John Major Jenkins and the other ones have the wrong data.
cyberspaceorbit cadet
11/9/2007
10:36 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"The actual 2012 is still 70 years into the future."
uhhhh, like, dude....the actual 2012 is 5 years into the future
hey, you were the cadet guy that kenton's cork smacked right in the actual forehead...
still wobbly about the whole time-space continuum thing, i see....
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
10:56 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"New Ideas are not advanced by convincing the skeptic, but funeral by funeral."
-- Max Planck - early quantum physicist, quoted nearly a century ago
See John Sheliak, Experimental Physicist, Los Alamos linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
10:58 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
5 years to 2012, something happens. big blank after that.
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
11:04 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Fear, fear, fear...
You are buying into fear.
Sad to see at the local bookstore things such: 'How to survive 2012"
Sorry, but I can not discuss with you more about 2012. The actual 2012. We are not at the same level.
Yes, the calendar says 2012.
But, that's that the real one.
I guess, I'll see you all here on 2013 and after...
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
11:05 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Nope. I was told by someone, kinda special. lol
I'll take His word for it over any book or anything. Its 2012
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
11:14 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Did he sell you a book too...?
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
11:19 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
No but He put me to work! lol
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
11:20 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Did he sell you a book too...?
------------------------
Try reading
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
11:22 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Timewave Dilations Software* - Spectral Analysis for Timewave Data linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/9/2007
11:26 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Who is this special person?
Emperor Kenton
11/9/2007
11:34 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Comet 17P Holmes Online Petition
We the people, in order to gather more information about the anomaly comet that is Holmes 17P are hereby requesting that the following Space based Telescopes show us their pictures and or slew and track and take pictures of Comet 17P Holmes. Kent sighted through binnocs 11/5 at 6:30 PM. Awesome!
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Vet/Father
11/10/2007
8:35 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, SS,
Can you use these data/graph to put P-17 exact location of explosion on 10/24...now ?
I don't have your skills and PC knowledge to put together a graph(image) using this side by side, and inventing a new chart.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The Full Moon of the Nov 9 Lunar Cycle conjoins Comet Holmes and Mirphak in Perseus
An excerpt from the Nov 9, 2007 Lunar Planner:
"Comet Holmes' dramatic eruption in Perseus occurred in the last lunar cycle (Oct 07). The Full Moon of Nov 24, 2007 significantly conjoins Holmes while retrograde Holmes and Mirphak conjoin in both ecliptical longitude and latitude. What a significator! Comet Holmes illumines and accentuates this Mirphak Full Moon theme; and perhaps our need to rise-to the occasion as the hero Perseus does in his initiatory journey to claim the success and achievement that Mirphak embodies. The realizations this Full Moon offers, whatever they may be for each of us, may be of extreme significance."
Emperor Kenton
11/10/2007
10:03 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, SS,
Can you use these data/graph to put P-17 exact location of explosion on 10/24...now ?
I don't have your skills and PC knowledge to put together a graph(image) using this side by side, and inventing a new chart.
----------------------
Best my old eyes can do on first shot
Registration isn't perfect, as well as graphic color match between the two-- if really critical I could try again
My email: bardsquill@aol.com
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/10/2007
10:38 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, SS,
Can you use these data/graph to put P-17 exact location of explosion on 10/24...now ?
I don't have your skills and PC knowledge to put together a graph(image) using this side by side, and inventing a new chart.
----------------------
Best my old eyes can do on first shot
Now:
linky poo
Oct 24:
linky poo
Registration isn't perfect, as well as graphic color match between the two-- if really critical I could try again
My email: bardsquill@aol.com
thanks Kent
Jpl also update more graph today...
The hungaria group starts at 1.7 au to 2.0 au.
P17 is at 1.62 au...just before this group..
I don't know the Eccentricity numbers on P17 ?
If its 0.5,0.7, or 1.0+
just updated info on my thread at MND/forum.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
To Vet/Father from FreeFlow (GLP):
Sorry didn't pay attention who Vet/Father is but tell him to try proxies, btw strange how many folks have been banned after posting on this thread, hmmmm ... mods can you look into that?
Btw what do you mean by 'pc'?
Joy Rules!
Vet/Father
11/10/2007
11:09 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
To Vet/Father from FreeFlow (GLP):
Sorry didn't pay attention who Vet/Father is but tell him to try proxies, btw strange how many folks have been banned after posting on this thread, hmmmm ... mods can you look into that?
Btw what do you mean by 'pc'?
Joy Rules!
alot of old-timers were banned long ago...
long story, almost 3 yrs ago ?...
why? maybe we were too crazy to handle
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Animation notes:
1. the rotation of the orbits is counterclockwise
2. The higher comet position with the brighter indicator dot is the more current linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Vet/Father
11/10/2007
11:43 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thank You Kent again.
We have P-17 exact location on the orbital plane at @ 1.62 au. Now we need to find the Eccentricity numbers and then we can place Homles on exact location, using that chart from JPL/NASA.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
i just got censored over there for a fucking joke
†flame†
11/10/2007
12:08 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
this is the best thread evah!
kudos..
"My god, it's full of stars,
This heaven surrounding my silence
Tis full of fire, icy brilliant,
This satin sky filling my soul."
Emperor Kenton
11/10/2007
12:27 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thank You Kent again.
We have P-17 exact location on the orbital plane at @ 1.62 au. Now we need to find the Eccentricity numbers and then we can place Homles on exact location, using that chart from JPL/NASA
---------------------
Any thoughts regarding the idea that the explosion bumped the Orbit somehow? I use the term, "explosion" following the lead of spaceweather.com and others.
If the orbit has been altered would the JPL Small-Body Database Browser display this now? Is this what we are trying to determine? Pardon me if this has already been discussed here, losing track of my own cottonpickin thread.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
So Kent and Vet/father,
Are you suggesting that Holmes IS in fact in a dense part of the asteroid belt? Someone in this thread had previously posted that was not true.
And vet/Father, Matt's opinion of this event is in his thread.
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
1:10 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Still trying to piece together the possible cause of Holmes outburst. Some thoughts:
Relative alignment of planets has created a weak spot or depression in the heliosphere out towards Holmes. Causing a similar situation to what happens in the South Atlantic Anomaly to satellites. Question: Was there a similar alignment of planets on it's previous (1892?) outburst?
Theory: Holmes is being exposed to a denser bombardment of interstellar dust causing it to oblate and combust its ethyl and methyl type elements.
More on dust bombardment:
_
"Our solar system may be headed for an encounter with a dense cloud of interstellar matter"
<The solar wind–the flux of charged particles streaming from the Sun’s corona–protects the Earth from direct interaction with the interstellar medium by enveloping the Earth and all the planets in the heliosphere, the region of influence of the solar wind. The heliosphere currently extends 100 times farther from the Sun than the distance between Earth and the Sun. “We think the heliosphere might have been much larger before we entered the interstellar cloud,” said Frisch, “but that’s something we can’t say for sure.”
But if the solar system encountered the much denser cloud, Frisch estimates that the heliosphere could be compressed to within one or two astronomical units of the Sun, not much greater than the Earth’s distance from the Sun. “There would be dramatic effects on the inner solar system,” said Frisch. “It would immediately change the whole interaction between the solar wind and the interstellar medium.” Researchers have predicted increases in the cosmic-ray flux, changes in the Earth’s magnetosphere, the chemistry of the atmosphere and perhaps even the terrestrial climate.> http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/96/960609.so lar.sytem.crash.shtml
__
Defenses Down, Galactic Dust Storm Hits Solar System
<The number of incoming particles recently tripled and the pace is expected to grow over the next decade. Terrestrial weather and climate will not likely be affected, but more shooting stars could grace the night sky, said the study's leader, Markus Landgraf of the European Space Agency (ESA).
The fresh influx is related to a periodic weakening of the Sun's magnetic field.
The discovery was made using data from ESA's Ulysses spacecraft, which orbits the Sun on a noncircular path between Earth and Jupiter and his been monitoring the situation since 1992. The probe detects small particles and, based on direction, mass and speed, figures out which ones came from outside the solar system.
Threefold increase
The number of interstellar dust grains increased from four per day, per meter in 1997 to 12 per day in 2000, Landgraf said. The results were announced earlier this month. He expects the rate to stay constant until 2005, and then increase by another factor of 3 prior to 2013.
The potential effects are not well known, according to Landgraf and his colleagues at the Max-Planck-Institute.
"Generally interstellar dust is not considered a problem, as it does not penetrate typical spacecraft structures," Landgraf explained in an e-mail interview. "However, due to the high impact velocity, sensitive high-voltage instruments can suffer a short circuit after an exceptionally big impact. Also, sensitive optical instruments have to worry about the erosion of polished surfaces."
Most interstellar grains are just one-hundredth the diameter of a human hair. But they move fast, roughly 58,160 mph (26 kilometers per second) relative to the Sun.
Secondary effects
Any notable effects on Earth will likely involve secondary processes. When interstellar dust hits comets and asteroids, it's like shooting a tiny bullet at a rock, and more dust is kicked up, and the follow-on dust tends to be bigger.
More interstellar dust means more dust generated in-house.>
<More to come
The solar system is always plowing through interstellar material. The Sun's giant magnetic field thwarts much of the dust from entering the solar system. But the magnetic field weakens periodically, on a cycle that lasts roughly 22-years. The cycle is related to an 11-year cycle of sunspot activity.
This is the first of the related dust storms that has been seriously monitored by a spacecraft.
Some day, the influx could get worse. The solar system is plowing toward the fringes of a galactic cloud known as the G-cloud.
"The time of the entry into the G-cloud is unknown, but is expected to occur any time in the next 10,000 years," Landgraf said. "There will be a constant increase [in dust rates], because the G-cloud is more dense than the local interstellar cloud that is now surrounding our Sun.">
__
Space Dust Flooding Our Solar System
<The dust grains pose no serious threat to the planets. But they could chip away at the solar panels on spacecraft, causing a gradual loss of power, and knock particles off asteroids, filling the solar system with even more dust. On Earth, stargazers may observe a greater number of shooting stars.>
<When the magnetic field weakens, more grains of dust are able to leak into the solar system. The field weakens periodically during phases of intense sunspot activity as part of the sun's 22-year cycle.
These phases of intense activity are called solar maximums. The intense activity causes the magnetic field to become disordered as its polarity reverses, rendering it less effective as a shield against tiny dust particles floating around in interstellar space.> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/08 27_030827_spacedust.html
wio is sirius
11/10/2007
1:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
didn't that comet holmes thingamabob become a million times brighter?
wio is right...it was an explosion of some sort, either a weapon being detonated (perhaps before it got to its target, earth) or a ship being destroyed
it is an interstellar war
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
1:58 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Question: Was there a similar alignment of planets on it's previous (1892?) outburst?
Jupiter far from the comet (both maps); with Earth, Mars, Venus in a general line all on one side of the Sun, 17p on same side of Sun and a general line to Jupiter (both maps)? But wouldn't this play out often?
What do you see?
Vet/Father
11/10/2007
2:47 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thank You Kent again.
We have P-17 exact location on the orbital plane at @ 1.62 au. Now we need to find the Eccentricity numbers and then we can place Homles on exact location, using that chart from JPL/NASA
---------------------
Any thoughts regarding the idea that the explosion bumped the Orbit somehow? I use the term, "explosion" following the lead of spaceweather.com and others.
If the orbit has been altered would the JPL Small-Body Database Browser display this now? Is this what we are trying to determine? Pardon me if this has already been discussed here, losing track of my own cottonpickin thread.
linky poo
I got the Eccentricity numbers (The e symbol )
rounded... 0.43....
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
it´s alive!
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
4:03 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I'm not good with numbers.
I've found this:
"last report of speed of expansion on Oct 30th was 660 m/s, which is @ 1,480 mph...(check)
1st...1,480 mph X 60 minutes = 8880
2nd.. 8880 X 24 hours= 2131200
3rd...???"
How big is this thing going to get?
Will it reach us down here?
Thanks
Emperor Kenton
11/10/2007
4:06 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Notice earth, right-hand corner for size comparison
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
SS
11/10/2007
4:08 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
there is something different about comet holmes "MEGA-OUTBURST" and that seems to be how it has grown so huge with it's coma of dust .. i think the only way we will know what is happening there is if we get some images like these of SW3 2006 OUTBURST:
let's review comet SW3 2006 OUTBURST .. you can see fragmented debris moving away from the comet .. that is not a tail .. that is fragmented debris being ejected from the comet .. although it does seem to eject in direction of the tail .
what we are seeing now with comet holmes does not look like a tail to me ..i certainly do not have any comets in my archive that has a tail looks like that but my this is the first "MEGA-OUTBURST" in my archive as well ..
i think we may never know for sure unless we get images like we got in 2006 of SW3 OUTBURST .. we received data almost immediately and that data confirmed the OUTBURST to be caused by fragmentation .. we had all kinds of data in 2006 from different sources .. not so with this "MEGA-OUTBURST" .. they must not want us to see something .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
time to send in the bearines...
"They would all come: the animals, the elves, gnomes, fairfolk and especially the little halfling children who waited in the realm preparing for births on denser worlds."
i'm a-comin'....
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
4:19 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
from spaceweather->
DOES COMET HOLMES HAVE A SATELLITE? Comet Holmes has erupted twice before, in Nov. 1892 and Jan. 1893. In 1984, great astronomer Fred Whipple proposed an explanation:
"An analysis of observations of comet P/Holmes 1892III's two 8-10 mag bursts indicates that these phenomena are consistent with the grazing encounter of a small satellite with the nucleus on November 4.6, 1892, and the final encounter on January 16.3, 1893. While after the first burst the total magnitude fell less than 2 mag from November 7 to 30, the fading was much more rapid after the second burst. It is suggested that the grazing encounter distributed a volume of large chunks in the neighborhood of the nucleus, maintaining activity for weeks." Source: Icarus (ISSN 0019-1035), vol. 60, Dec. 1984, p. 522-531.
Whipple's idea might be updated circa 2007 to include a swarm of orbiting debris produced by, say, a previous collision. From time to time a debris-fragment might hit the comet's nucleus causing a new outburst. It's possible: Asteroids have satellites, so why not comets? Furthermore, fragments going around a comet's irregular nucleus would have unstable orbits; from time to time they would naturally crash into the comet or fly off into space.
Warning: This is all pure speculation! No one knows why Comet Holmes keeps exploding. Perhaps the modern array of telescopes trained on Comet Holmes in 2007 will solve the mystery--but not yet. For now, we can only watch and wonder
SS
11/10/2007
4:44 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
has anyone ever seen a comet tail that looks like this before ??
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I can't get the graph image to show, and paste/copy it.
can i get some help, please.
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?dist_ae_ast
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
5:01 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
has anyone ever seen a comet tail that looks like this before ??
linky poo
i have never seen a tail like that before .. if anyone has seen a tail like this one could you link image of it ??
BLUE KACHINA
Emperor Kenton
11/10/2007
5:42 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
has anyone ever seen a comet tail that looks like this before ??
linky poo
i have never seen a tail like that before .. if anyone has seen a tail like this one could you link image of it ??
------------------------
Here is an image from Hubble of Hyakutake linky poo
Perhaps this was taken at distance or is specifically the inner coma because Hyakutake as I remember did apparently develop a tail. At what time during its orbit I'm not sure.
As I remember when I first sighted Hyakutake in my binoculars in fact it looked like comet Holmes. This has been sticking in my head all along.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
bear klawnin around
11/10/2007
6:20 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"In the enchanted Lands lived a great lady of brave sparkle."
did she like to light her farts, too?
wonder what caused the sparkle effect
only seems to happen with the chili comet carne
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
9:22 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Hey guys,
Do you remember Mother Shipton prophesy?
Woo Hoo...!
:tinkerbell:
Anonymous Coward
11/10/2007
10:38 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Question/something to chew on:
This comet was discovered in 1892 because it went into megaoutburst as it is now performing for our entertainment.
If it was just discovered at that time, then its orbit around the Sun was also discovered at that time - after the megaoutburst event. We know now that this is Holmes because it is a predictable orbit tracked for over a century.
Will the megaoutburst change this orbit? Does it matter?
SS
11/10/2007
11:50 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
As I remember when I first sighted Hyakutake in my binoculars in fact it looked like comet Holmes. This has been sticking in my head all along.
kent were you in the city or outside the city away from city lights ??? i remember in the city it was a fuzzball but when i got were there were no city lights it had a tail stretched across the sky .. here is a pic similiar what i saw outside the city lights:
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Thanks Ken and thanks Jim.
That was exactly my point.
I saw the nucleus just with my beautiful eyes...a week ago!
So, this thing is bigger than what they were saying,uh!
I'm afraid people will really panic just before 2012 thanks to this comet.
:mario:
bear klawnin around
11/11/2007
6:13 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
I'm afraid people will really panic just before 2012 thanks to this comet.
----------------
yeh, really panic that it will miss us
and we will be stuck with the usual suspect gang of thugs for the rest of freeternity
Huh?
11/11/2007
9:33 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Last Updated: Saturday, 10 November 2007, 14:38 GMT
Asteroid 'is actually spacecraft'
The unmanned Rosetta craft has already flown past Earth once
A supposed asteroid, which it was feared was going to have a near-miss with Earth next week, has been identified as a spacecraft.
Professor Alan Fitzsimmons of Queen's University Astrophysics Research Centre told the BBC there is "no longer any need for concern".
"The 'asteroid' has been identified as the European spacecraft Rosetta," he said.
The spacecraft is en route to a comet near Jupiter.
Earlier this year, the unmanned Rosetta craft, which has already flown past Earth once, passed within 250 km (150 miles) of Mars.
In a precise move, the probe used the planet's gravity to change course on its voyage to the Churyumov-Gerasimenko comet.
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
A supposed asteroid, which it was feared was going to have a near-miss with Earth next week, has been identified as a spacecraft.
Professor Alan Fitzsimmons of Queen's University Astrophysics Research Centre told the BBC there is "no longer any need for concern".
-----------------------
Weird report above, who knows what the space-jocks are up to?
I wonder about the whereabouts of Deep Space One, allegedly "retired" several years ago.
An email I received several years ago, rather conspiratorial, take it or leave it:
The Mission of Deep Space One:
1. Evaluate effectiveness of magneoplasma energy (magnetic control of plasma) in space.
2. Evaluate capabilities to intercept and neutralize comet.
More: linky poo
Alternate version of Deep Space One mission: April Mars fly by
June Closest approach to Comet P/West-Kohoutek-Ikemura
July End of DS1 primary mission
[some of us wondered if the lads were attempting to terraform Mars by melting a "dirty snowball" near Mars orbit although "officially" the Mars flyby was scrubbed and....rerouted.] linky poo linky poo
Compare to Deep Impact, a known comet impactor: linky poo
Do we have comet-killer spacecraft out there?
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
11:12 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
A ships defensive system, maybe?
Kent et al, what if there is a piece of leftover Star Wars era machinery, left at the core of this comet?
There were sectors that had admitted to me, that all of the Star Wars movie materials, were actually past channeled materials.
People who even went to see the original Star Wars complained of DejaVue after seeing this series.
j
SS
11/11/2007
11:25 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Compare to Deep Impact, a known comet impactor:
linky poo
what about 1892 kent ??? did they slam one into holmes then too ?? that was 115 years ago this same comet "MEGA-OUTBURST" then too ..in fact it did it again in dec 1892 which is why we are keeping on watching it in case it does it again this time ..
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
what about 1892 kent ??? did they slam one into holmes then too ?? that was 115 years ago this same comet "MEGA-OUTBURST" then too ..in fact it did it again in dec 1892 which is why we are keeping on watching it in case it does it again this time ..
---------------------------------
I know, we earthlings did not cause the the 1892 event, did we?
Although now we are sleuthing modern tech capabilities...um...now. I think I'll toss a few questions directly to Los Alamos.
[Looking at my old email posted on January 31, 2001 at 07:36:54 AM EST]
Posting:
Fact: Deep Space One, the space rocket first planned by NASA, was removed from NASA's authority and was then commanded by a joint-venture team consisting of personnel from the Los Alamos Laboratory and The Titan Project (US Defense Department).
Fact: These same agencies researched, discovered and delivered the atomic bomb 50 years ago and the nuclear bomb 30 years ago. (Come on folks, what do you think they've been doing for the last 30 years?) linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
SS
11/11/2007
11:50 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
ok kent we already been through this on the first page this thread when everyone thought it was an inbound spaceship or a supernova:
1892 17M outburst to 4M = 13 Magnitudes of outburst
2007 17M outburst to 2M = 15 Magnitudes of outburst
they are very similar "MEGA-OUTBURST" .. one in 1892 115 years ago you agree had to have been natural yet now on a similar "MEGA-OUTBURST" you think someone nuked it .. well there is bound to be those who think that .
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
they say that his orbit is of 6.9, that is to say. 7 years. Add since 1892. So we might have seen it in 2003.
they say that we can see it since 1906. then it appeared in 1964 (so it should has been seen in 1962), add to this . we should´ve seen it in 2002 and then in 2009.
Is it the same body, or this is another one which data isn´t been given to us. Because NAsa doesn´t go out to deny what it´s been speculating. IT IS APPROACHING US.
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
12:03 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
they are very similar "MEGA-OUTBURST" .. one in 1892 115 years ago you agree had to have been natural yet now on a similar "MEGA-OUTBURST" you think someone nuked it .. well there is bound to be those who think that.
--------------------------------------
Question: do we now have the capability to physically disturb comets? The answer is yes we do, Deep Impact, eh?
I started scratching my head, as did mainstream astros when we saw [with the help of Hubble then] Comet Linear break up beyond expectation.
"This was a complete surprise to us," said Harold Weaver, one of the researchers at John's Hopkins University who viewed the comet's first outburst. "I couldn't believe it when I brought these images up on the screen -- the first day it looked like a normal comet, and then the next day was just completely different."
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
One more time: Comet 17P Holmes Online Petition linky poo
We the people, in order to gather more information about the anomaly comet that is Holmes 17P are hereby requesting that the following Space based Telescopes show us their pictures and or slew and track and take pictures of Comet 17P Holmes. Kent sighted through binnocs 11/5 at 6:30 PM. Awesome!
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
so the jesuits won't give pope steadmanorton the dope on holmes
no shit, sherlock
---------------------------------
Won't give it to you neither.
If all else fails, we will use the ancient spell of Denny the Druid and stroll out there for a close look.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
1:58 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Although density of asteroids would certainly increase the risk of collision, a lack of density does not obviate the risk of collision.
There is also the Kuiper Belt to consider which regularly spits objects into the inner solar system.
The comet does not have an interference detector to change its direction if something is in its path.
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
2:02 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Assuming that a manmade object could be manufactured that could exit Earth's atmosphere intact, then the technology certainly exists to shoot the comet accurately.
And, yes, some people do think that way.
Kent,
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
2:10 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
All theories aside, best advice: go out and look at it, a rare event.
This will help you spot.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
2:16 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, maybe its an old item leftover from a past civilization, that was buried in the core of that asteroid?
Maybe a sort of armored space station, or power pliant.
Maybe this thing tunes on automatically and produces either a force field, or heat.So much so, that all the ice around it, expands and blows off?
The radius of this explosion, is like something that would be equal to at least two tons of explosion in order to do that.
So there might be something artificial at this comets core?
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
2:17 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Although density of asteroids would certainly increase the risk of collision, a lack of density does not obviate the risk of collision.
-----------------------------------
Theory # X666 1/2 in Kent's Komplex Katalog Matter/antimatter reaction
When galactic antimatter enters our solar system, antimatter is called comets. linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
2:20 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
2:22 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Kent, maybe its an old item leftover from a past civilization, that was buried in the core of that asteroid?
Maybe a sort of armored space station, or power pliant.
Maybe this thing tunes on automatically and produces either a force field, or heat.So much so, that all the ice around it, expands and blows off?
The radius of this explosion, is like something that would be equal to at least two tons of explosion in order to do that.
So there might be something artificial at this comets core?
----------------------------------
Holmes seems to have a dual core or a satellite
DOES COMET HOLMES HAVE A SATELLITE? Comet Holmes has erupted twice before, in Nov. 1892 and Jan. 1893. In 1984, great astronomer Fred Whipple proposed an explanation:
"An analysis of observations of comet P/Holmes 1892III's two 8-10 mag bursts indicates that these phenomena are consistent with the grazing encounter of a small satellite with the nucleus on November 4.6, 1892, and the final encounter on January 16.3, 1893. While after the first burst the total magnitude fell less than 2 mag from November 7 to 30, the fading was much more rapid after the second burst. It is suggested that the grazing encounter distributed a volume of large chunks in the neighborhood of the nucleus, maintaining activity for weeks." Source: Icarus (ISSN 0019-1035), vol. 60, Dec. 1984, p. 522-531.
----------------------------
Some Sci-Fi geeks with massive imagination [unlike myself] have guessed that ET Spacecraft or Cosmic entities tag along with comets.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
2:28 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Nope' I think its something that's armored and tough, that has a power sources, that turns on every once in a while.
What gives this away, is the radius of the explosion, ending in the tensor field around what was the core.
Gravity would begin in time, to pull all the chunks back in and they would refreeze over, till this supposed power sources was turned on again.
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
2:32 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
About Cosmic Entities:
Here's a tidy lil' tidbit from mainstream
On January 5th, 1986, "Parade Magazine", a weekly publication that is delivered to a very great number of homes every week with their Sunday newspaper, ran an article entitled "THE BEST AND WORST OF EVERYTHING". The article was a review of the year 1985. Within that article, under the heading "Best International News" was the following report:
Six Soviet cosmonauts said they witnessed the most awe-inspiring spectacle ever encountered in space - a band of glowing angels with wings as big as jumbo jets. According to "Weekly World News", cosmonauts Vladimir Solevev, Oleg Atkov and Leonid Kizim said they first saw the celestial beings last July, during their 155th day aboard the orbiting "Salyut 7" space station. "What we saw," they said, "were seven giant figures in the form of humans, but with wings and mistlike halos, as in the classic depiction of angels. Their faces were round with cherubic smiles." Twelve days later, the figures returned and were seen by three other Soviet scientists, including woman cosmonaut Svetlana Savitskaya. "They were smiling," she said, "as though they shared in a glorious secret."
Expanded [Archive, not all the links work that great anymore]: linky poo
C'mon Hubble lads, astrophysicists, Jesuits or whomever the hell you are, give us a look at Holmesy!
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
2:41 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
HOLMES WAS HERE IN 2004.
1892
112 ( not 115 as vet says) (16 turns)
holmes here in 2004 or 2009
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
2:58 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
THE 11:11 HOLMES WAS AN INSIDE JOB.
necramericanomicon
11/11/2007
3:27 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
wio may have a point about it being open warfare, and alien-earth here is a possible target
have been listening to michael tsarion's lectures, and he says that originally earth was a dry planet
tiamat was a neighboring water planet, and was completely destroyed by warring factions in an interstellar debacle
after tiamat was destroyed by hi tek weaponry, a lot of its water was attracted to the gravitational influx of its nearest neighbor, earth
and the asteroid belt was comprised of its rubble
was watching a pbs special on the creation of earth, and the geophysicist who was acting as host had to admit that they aren't sure where all the water on this planet came from...they think maybe ice comets, except that there is way too much water for this concept to work
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
6:16 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Dilatoriness
11/11/2007
6:16 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Just wanted to say hi here to all.
Vet/Father I saw a post on the 'other forum' where you allegedly left a message for me through that poster, can you elaborate it? I don't even know who you are lol, I just can see you have the AV from Storm.
Anyway will check in again here later or tomorrow ....
FreeFlow
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
6:17 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
tiamat was a neighboring water planet, and was completely destroyed by warring factions in an interstellar debacle
after tiamat was destroyed by hi tek weaponry, a lot of its water was attracted to the gravitational influx of its nearest neighbor, earth
and the asteroid belt was comprised of its rubble
was watching a pbs special on the creation of earth, and the geophysicist who was acting as host had to admit that they aren't sure where all the water on this planet came from...they think maybe ice comets, except that there is way too much water for this concept to work
----------------------------
Some think Mars and maybe earth were once moons of Tiamat. I believe Tom vanFlandern has put forth a such a theory.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
nolomolistari
11/11/2007
6:26 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Wasn't it Velikovsky who speculated that the close passage of Venus as a Wanderer, tore the water off from Mars and that's what ended up here with our own indigenous water...and plus a generous coating of hydrocarbons from Venus dropped on us, which became our petroleum reserves.
And Venus found its own orbit around our sun.
And the close passage was told as stories of Tiamat & Marduk.
MVNDVS VVLT DECIPI
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
6:28 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Just wanted to say hi here to all.
Vet/Father I saw a post on the 'other forum' where you allegedly left a message for me through that poster, can you elaborate it? I don't even know who you are lol, I just can see you have the AV from Storm.
Anyway will check in again here later or tomorrow ....
FreeFlow
vetfather is a old, old timer from the old days of glp, orbit. cool guy alot of cool, great information and images on his site.
As I recall, v/f just wanted to share infromations and work together, but he's banned at glp
Dilatoriness
11/11/2007
6:32 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Yeah I know he's banned, I was already asking a certain mod today to do something but he said he needs to know his IP to unban him.
V/F when you see this post please PM me your IP here on A-E, thanks mate!
Btw I wasn't even aware he can be found here at A-E ...
Thanks for your info AC above!
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
9:32 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
10:13 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
The comet is expanding at about 1,100 mph and is "an unprecedented million times brighter" than before its outburst, UH astronomers said.
The comet's nucleus appears as a white "star" near the center of the cloud of dust on the image. A tail also is starting to grow, the scientists reported.
Jewitt said about 10 million tons of dust erupted from the comet.
"It's like something broke on the nucleus and all this stuff poured out into space," he said
http://starbulletin.com/2007/11/11/news/story04.ht ml
------------
10/23 2,2 miles.
11/09 900.000 miles
Difference = 17 days so somewhere around 408 hours.
This makes 2205 mph expansion speed, not about the half, 1100 mph as mentioned
do the math in 100 days if it continues the same it wil be in the millons of miles across
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
10:54 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
tiamat was a neighboring water planet, and was completely destroyed by warring factions in an interstellar debacle
after tiamat was destroyed by hi tek weaponry, a lot of its water was attracted to the gravitational influx of its nearest neighbor, earth
and the asteroid belt was comprised of its rubble
was watching a pbs special on the creation of earth, and the geophysicist who was acting as host had to admit that they aren't sure where all the water on this planet came from...they think maybe ice comets, except that there is way too much water for this concept to work
Is there a new drug out?
Anonymous Coward
11/11/2007
10:55 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
10/23 2,2 miles.
11/09 900.000 miles
Difference = 17 days so somewhere around 408 hours.
This makes 2205 mph expansion speed, not about the half, 1100 mph as mentioned
do the math in 100 days if it continues the same it wil be in the millons of miles across
5.3 million miles in 100 days, only 144.7 million miles to go!
Last I estimated at 2571 mph for 14 days. But since the tail broke off, and there is no reliable reason for that, just theories, all bets are off.
Comet Encke tail theory - Encke was in the range of Mercury (gross estimate) 36 million miles from the Sun when a CME occured slicing off the tail. Any CME lately, distance too far anyway. Solar wind? Did Holmes stop/slow bursting, (apperance of) tail broke off (different trajectory - why not - bursting from a sphere in any direction), continued bursting?
Wait and see....
Emperor Kenton
11/11/2007
11:51 pm EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Solar X-rays, Flares and Environment are as dead as Fred linky poo
There is a coronal hole in the works
3-day Solar-Geophysical Forecast issued Nov 11 22:00 UTC
Solar Activity Forecast: Solar activity is expected to remain very low.
Geophysical Activity Forecast: The geomagnetic field is expected to begin the period at quiet levels. The arrival of a coronal hole high speed stream during the latter part of 13 November should raise levels to unsettled, with an occasional active period. Isolated minor storm periods are possible at high latitudes. The elevated activity is expected to persist through 14 November.
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
Emperor Kenton
11/12/2007
12:30 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
Deep Impact will rendezvous with the comet TT on July 4, 2005. We will have five months to pour over the numbers. Hopefully, we will know the megatons needed for our last shot with Holmes. We plan to launch December 14th using a Boeing Delta 7920 with the launch name USA 193 (NROL-21) carrying the nuclear payload. As it stands, if we can launch before December 2007, we will have 9 months before intercept, and 16 months for the answer.
MY SLEUTH: Dec 14 2100 USA-193 (NROL-21) Delta 7920 Vandenberg SLC2W Unknown 57A linky poo
The payload was a classified satellite from the National Reconnaissance Office, NROL-21. The satellite separated from the rocket and entered its orbit at 3:58 p.m., after the Delta II carried it at speeds exceeding 15,000 miles per hour.
The two-stage rocket, a Delta II 7920-10, was 12 stories high, had nine strap-on solid rocket boosters and a 10-foot diameter nose cone.
The satellite's orbit is about 200 miles above the Earth. [comment: that's a big two-stage missile isn't it, for a low orbit?] linky poo
Image:Delta II 7920 launch with NROL-21.jpg linky poo
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/
necramericanomicon
11/12/2007
5:25 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
"tiamat was a neighboring water planet, and was completely destroyed by warring factions in an interstellar debacle
after tiamat was destroyed by hi tek weaponry, a lot of its water was attracted to the gravitational influx of its nearest neighbor, earth
and the asteroid belt was comprised of its rubble
was watching a pbs special on the creation of earth, and the geophysicist who was acting as host had to admit that they aren't sure where all the water on this planet came from...they think maybe ice comets, except that there is way too much water for this concept to work
Is there a new drug out?"
---------------------------
what, they need to put a new drug out into the environment? isn't the fluoride in the water and toothpaste, and mercury in the tooth fillings and new-fangled energy-saver lightbulbs and tuna, and aspartame and splenda in the obese kiddy frankenkandy substitutes enough?
i am just reiterating what i have seen on other sites...
like the shoemaker-levy train of "coments" that slammed into jupiter, and caused glowing craters larger than the size of the earth in its surface
and whitley strieber has talked of "mass drivers" being a possible weapon of mass destruction; large boulders launched off of the moon in its low gravity...the acceleration would give them the destructive force akin to that of nuclear devices
the great lakes have been conjectured to be caused by meteor impacts
as were the destruction of the saurian race...which had ruled this planet for millions of years
so name your mindkontrol poison........make mine a triple while you're at it
necramericanomicon
11/12/2007
5:56 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
the tmgnow site has material on 76P's passage back in 2000...and also lauds the emperor of all kenton himself on his coverage of same (i have cut and pasted the passages from the tmgnow article that mention 76P and kenton):
THE FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE
An Answer To The Threat of 76P And The Plight of Phobos
Introduction
About two years ago we were expecting something to take place between the quiet little comet 76P and the planet Mars. The date came and went. TMG experienced administrative problems (a polite way of saying that the you-know-what hit the fan), people went their separate ways and health problems just about defeated us. But this story is bigger than individual people
One more final point, before we get started. We believed at the time that Phobos may or may not have been affected by 76P. What we have discovered is that Phobos may have left Mars' orbit prior to June 2000!
1) Historical and Current Events (a recap of what is known up to the contact between 76P and Mars, and the issue of 76P)
8/98 - NASA claims that they change the mission of satellite Deep Space 1 from a fly by of Mars/Phobos and a close inspection of 76P to an innocuous comet.
6/4/00 - The Compton Gamma Ray Observatory is intentionally crashed into the earth, even though it was functioning well at the time. One NASA scientist protests.
6/4/00 - Comet 76p encounter with Mars
6/4/00 - The beginning of one of the largest dust storms ever recorded of the surface of Mars. Could it be a result of fragment hits?
5) Phobos & The Terrible Ones
There remains to this day no adequate proof that Phobos and Diemos (the moons of Mars) are still in orbit around Mars, following the passage of 76P. There is however some evidence that they have come to visit the earth since that event and perhaps even before that event! READ ON!
When we first became aware of the threat of 76P to Mars, one of the scenarios we entertained was the ripping away of the moons from the planet. We considered the direction of the comet, the comet's passage through the ecliptic just prior to contact, speed, and a few other factors. This is probably a good place to note that comet 76P has never been re-aquired after its encounter with Mars.
A few days before 76P reached Mars a curious thing happened. The sun went crazy, pumping out some incredible flares toward the area. In addition the shuttle Atlantis was in orbit over the earth and announced that they would be extending their mission three days. We believe that this was to see the effects of 76P on Mars. They happened to have with them extra instrumentation to suggest just this fact. However two days into the added three days they called an immediate halt to the mission and did an emergency landing. A landing that was at night - an extremely dangerous attempt and one that they had never done before or since. Reports at Kennedy say that the crosswinds even exceeded parameters for a regular daytime landing. News reports stated at the time that they came in so hot that they even "singed" the wings! What could have caused them to take such drastic measures? What was it that scared them enough to take such chances with their lives and a multibillion dollar craft?
We believe we know.
As 76P approached Mars it began to enter the ecliptic. Remember the ecliptic is that plane that the planets pass through around the sun. It's not imaginary at all, but rather it is a demarcation of change of electrical charge from positive to negative or visa versa, depending upon the direction that you are passing through it. In the past we have documented a number of comets as they have passed through this wall of electromagnetic change. For any of you who have had to use battery cables to get a car started and accidentally switched the cables, putting the positive on the negative pole or visa versa, you know the violent reaction you get! It can blow up the batteries and/or ruin your car! The charge that we are speaking of in the ecliptic, is virtually millions of times more powerful. When you add the charge of the comet - BOOM! Sometimes, even often, it will tear the comet into pieces. It used to be about a third of the comets that passed through the ecliptic broke up - today it is an even higher number. In the past astronomers have mistakenly believed that the destruction of comets was due to tidal or gravitational effects. WRONG! The amount of energy that gravity places upon a comet pales to this energy. We believe that the astronauts aboard the shuttle were watching the comet approach Mars and witnessed one of these tremendous events. Several million miles before 76P reached Mars (approximately 6.25 million miles) it hit the ecliptic, broke apart and then the sun burst forth an extremely powerful flare toward the event. Now Mars was almost on the opposite side of the sun from us, however there was still a clear shot to the encounter. Charges are both positive and negative and need to connect. Flares went not only to the area of Mars/76P but came toward the earth. A powerful flare can easily take out a space craft like the MIR, for instance. How many times did their on board computers fail? Dozens! The shuttle, with its better insulation, still became a concern for NASA. So they brought her down immediately, before the flare reached the earth. The whole local area of space lit up those few days. I would imagine that it scared the biggebies out of them!
This first image is a SOHO C3 taken on June 3rd, 2000 as 76P approaches the ecliptic and Mars. 76P had already hit the edge of the ecliptic and the solar storm was in full force. The arrow shows the general direction that 76P traveled toward Mars. Mars is just coming on the very edge of the image to the far left above the arrow and the comet. The image can be clicked on to get the full image.
Some believe that they could see 76P as it passed Mars. The following image was sent to us with that idea in mind. It is not unusual for comets to regroup after being torn apart by the ecliptic. Actually even if the comet was still in parts in this image it could continue to appear to be whole at this distance. But the fact remains that no one has reacquired 76P following its passage of Mars.
An object was discovered close to the moon by a number of people. It was reported by the ELRAD/CAUS folks and by Kent Steadman of the ORBIT website. The image Steadman posted was the "A" image in the trilogy above (It can be clicked on for the larger original image).
Kent's interpretation:
On 12/22-23 Elfrad discovered a signal with a wavelength indicating possible
source-origin at 206,946 miles
On the 25th the signal intensified and was corroborated by the ACE spacecraft
(unknown origin reported by solar observers)
On the 28-30th upon further monitoring of ongoing signal, filters were
applied by ELFRAD to determine relationships of both PI and PHI (golden ratio)
in the warp and woof of signal.
On the 30th A lunar image was discovered on the Internet by Steadman depicting
the moon with a nearby anomaly.
CAUS thanks Kent Steadman for his excellent report.
Peter A. Gersten
Director
A few days later the government let the other shoe drop, as if to say "We know about these objects, and just in case we're warning everybody in case there's an invasion or an attack!" Here's the story from Mitch Batros at Earthchanges T.V.:
ADDENDUM:
In recent months we haven't had time to do much of anything besides the research. Today, after finishing this article, we treated ourselves and did a little Internet surfing. The very first page that we went to was Kent Steadman's ORBIT page. We were totally shocked to see on his page, images of the very same object we have posted - taken by others. It appears others are seeing some of the very same things we are seeing, and seeing them independently of our work! See it HERE.
=============
kenton's page on 76P:
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/moonsaucer.html
THE FOUR HORSEMEN OF THE APOCALYPSE
An Answer To The Threat of 76P And The Plight of Phobos
by Ray Ward & gary d. goodwin
Date: 4/18/02 10:03:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Kent, Gary Goodwin here of THE MILLENNIUM GROUP. Over the past months we have been working on the 76P/Mars thing and have written up our work and ready to go live with it. This a.m. for some reason I thought I would check out Orbit and found the moon pics of the UFO. We have similar findings with images.
Astronomers Spy Unregistered Satellite: it is 50 meters wide and orbiting the Earth but it doesn't show up on any of the lists of satellites registered with the North American Aerospace Defense Command (huge for a spy satellite, especially since the total size of the *completed* International Space Station isn't going to be much more than twice this size (the Zvezda module on the ISS is only 43 *feet*, or less than 1/3 the size of this supposed spy sattelite)
necramericanomicon
11/12/2007
6:18 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
the tmgnow site has other articles that mention 76P, including:
This is probably a good place to note that comet 76P
has never been re-acquired after its encounter with Mars.
Actually, it is worse than that. Comet 76P has never been officially re-acquired since it was last observed on March 30, 1994. Do not be fooled by published orbital elements that quote a later epoch. Such orbits are computed osculating orbits. The epoch is that for which the elements best approximate the comet's "true" orbit. The elements define a 2-body orbit that is tangent to (osculates) the n-body orbit at the specified epoch. The elements of an n-body orbit vary as a function of time. Earlier observations are simply projected forward in time by numerical integration techniques. Until recently, the last observation information for Comet 76P was listed in
http://cfa-www.harvard.edu/iau/lists/LastCometObs. html
But I looked, and Comet 76P has been REMOVED from this list. The Minor Planet Center had updated that file about an hour before I looked. Why would they do that?
It is my opinion that Comet 76P has been observed unofficially by the Hubble Space Telescope and by the Mars Global Surveyor, and these observations have not been made public. The Hubble people told Brian Marsden that they had acquired 76P in April 2000, but they would not give him the observation data. The normal earthbound comet observers have not recovered it because, in my opinion, it experienced an orbit-changing slingshot event in the Jovian L-5 Trojan asteroid belt in late 1996 or early 1997, so the comet would not be following its legacy orbit. To recover a comet, you have to know where to look, and if its orbit changed, it won't be where you expect to find it. Also, comets have a habit of "disappearing" when their comas become quiescent.
Glen gives the findings of the shadows as proof that Phobos and Deimos are still in orbit around Mars, yet in the next breath condemns MSSS for censoring data. In fact the data they censor, and we believe that in fact they did censor data, comes from the period of 76P's encounter with Mars. Glen is rightly implying or stating that they are attempting to hide something. Could that something be the fact that there was some destruction or interaction between Mars and 76P? Why else delete the information? Hiding and lying about Mars is nothing new. Please read our past article Mars and July 2000 -- Knowledge Denied by Marshall Masters. If you think that distorting the truth about Mars is beyond such pros as Malin, after you read this article you may change your mind! Glen calls the absence of certain data "methodical". He speculates that the spacecraft was aimed at the area of space where they would expect to see the comet. In fact they have aimed the spacecraft at other objects prior to and after the mission of mapping the surface of Mars. He is 100% correct in assuming that this is a good possibility. Remember MSSS is the contract agency and individuals that have so vigorously fought against the idea of the Cydonia face. When the complaint was lodged about them with holding data and images, they began flooding the Internet with literally hundreds of thousands of images of Mars. Interesting the limited number of photos concerning the surrounding Cydonia area!
Glen points out that we state that 76P was never recovered after June of 2000 and he rightly further points out that it was never recovered or seen after March of 1994. This is very true, but it's very interesting that there is such a distinct data dropout at MSSS for that period. Like they were looking themselves for it!
http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/mars/marshit2.htm l
Here are the details - short and sweet and to the point.
We were expecting an "encounter" between Mars and Comet 76P toward the end of May through the first few days of June. I can hear the critics say, "Is that the best you can do?" Well... the answer is yes, that's the best we can do. We are a few unfunded researchers doing the best we can with the information available to us. There's no access to million dollar telescopes, to mega-speed computers, or anything of the like. What we do have at our disposal, are those same things that Joe Civilian has at his disposal. We have the internet. One of the most incredible tools ever available to the common man. And I'm sure it pisses "them" off to high Heaven. Many of us do have educations from Their Uniformitarian universities and we have a few insiders that confirm many of our affirmations.
So have we seen indications or evidence of an encounter between Mars and 76P, you ask? I stand up and shout YES!
And I will add - It's a frightening supposition.
First let me restate those possibilities that we have said could happen:
When the dust finally settled, we stated that we believed that 76P would come within 40,000 miles of the planet. This, we further stated, would constitute an IMMINENT HIT. The critics and the uniformitarians all came out the next few days with an attempt to discredit and smear TMG by saying that our figures were false and that we were inept. They stated that 76P wouldn't come within 4 million miles of Mars. The numbers had been modified and the fix was in. But our source on the inside told us to stick with the numbers. We did. There hasn't been anything but calculations to support their assertions - not a picture or a single piece of solid evidence to say otherwise.
We stated that we believed that it was highly possible that the comet could be drawn into the planet by Mars' gravity well or by the electromagnetic field surrounding the vicinity of the planet.
We stated that it was possible that if the planet was NOT hit, the comet could possibly yank either one or both of Mars' moons along with it, or out of Mars' control. At the time we not familiar with Scallions' prophecy of Phobos threatening the earth nor did we even put together the fact that Phobos = Fear orTerror, as in Nostrodamus' prophecies concerning the "King of Terror".
We stated that we believed, that if the comet did not hit Mars, that it could replicate the electrical connection between the two objects that Velikovsky speaks of in his writings (Venus and Mars). This violent effect could cause great damage to the planet, up to and including blasting millions of tons of material from the surface of the planet, even to the point of tearing the planet into pieces.
We stated that we believed that the comet could become more charged as it passed through the ecliptic, just as it approached Mars, creating an even greater chance of even more damage. It could explode passing through the ecliptic or discharge into the entire solar system, not just the planet, creating a "shockwave-like" effect. An average sized comet of only 20 miles in diameter could still cause immense damage.
necramericanomicon
11/12/2007
6:30 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
from the last tmgnow article above:
Debris? Did Someone Say Debris?
One of our researchers picked up on a problem with SOHO C3 imaging. Read it for yourselves:
"I think the event may have happened on 03 June. Look at file 000603_c3.mpeg. All other movies increment at approx 1 hour steps. This movie jumps from 07:42 to 16:42 A WHOLE DAY! This happens just as Mars is starting to appear. Mars doesn't appear till the 3rd June."
We believe we have identified three separate "explosions" associated with t he Mars/76P encounter, starting as early as May 25th. These are identified by first a debris field emanating from the area of the planet itself on or about the 25th of May, a set of missing frames as identified by our peer in the above email, and objects in the star field that do not relate to any known object. (The images relating to these reports will be posted or not, with explanation, following further assessment.)
Consider This!
SL9 hit Jupiter 21 times.
Each piece was approximately one mile in diameter.
Review "SL9, The Advent" by A.N. Dmitriev
Each mountain hurled down upon Jupiter delivered a minimum of a hundred and twenty million megatons of explosive destruction.
Comet 76P is estimated to be, conservatively 20 miles in diameter. Mars is 100,000 times smaller than Jupiter. That's a differential of 500 X 100,000 which equals 500,000,000 units of force to physical volume or size!
Remember how we all marveled at SL9's power and impact on Jupiter? How the "experts" said that one impact the size of only one of the fragments of SL9 would destroy the earth. Compare that to the relationship in size between Mars and 76P.
necramericanomicon
11/12/2007
6:38 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
yet another tmgnow site article on mars and 76P:
http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/mars/mars2.html
Mars and July 2000 -- Chain of Events
By Steve Russell
and Marshall Masters
March 20, 2000
During May/June 2000 time period, Comet 76/P - West-Kohoutek-Ikemura will approach Mars at an extremely close distance. This comet passes so close to Mars and its Moons, it could possibly be caught in the gravitational / electrical field of Mars an impact Mars or one of itís moons.
An Unsettling Chain of Events
What TMG is seeing with regards to Mars and Comet 76P ‚ West-Kohoutek-Ikemura is what appears to be unbroken chain of events that could very well lead to an impact event on Mars. On their own merit, each of these events would be inconsequential even though weíve never really come to understand them.
Planetary Alignments: An extremely rare alignment of the Sun, Moon, eight planets and at least five comets occurs on May 5 2000. This alignment could alter the present near-impact Mars trajectory of 76/P into an impact trajectory. It is important to note that the last occurrence of this alignment was in September 1186 AD. Therefore, what affect this alignment may or many not have, is a matter of pure speculation for both TMG and NASA.
The Unpredictable Mars Gravity Well: This comet passes so close to Mars and its Moons, it could be caught in the gravitational / electrical fields of Mars.
The Solar Maximum: There is a solar maximum this year that will increase the electromagnetic field strengths throughout our solar system. It is well-documented fact that impact events occur more frequently during Solar Maximums.
Did Nostradamus See This Chain of Events Happening?
One possible interpretation of a Nostradamus quatrain is thought to warn of something significant approaching Earth around July 2000, and makes specific use of the work "Mars." For some Nostradamus enthusiasts, this interpretation suggests that during July we will receive a warning of the threat, but not be affected by it. For others, there is this tingling sense of dread, as though one waits for the "the other shoe to fall."
In the year 1999 and seven months,
The Great King of Terror will come from the sky.
He will bring back to life the great king of Angolmois,
Before and after Mars reigns happily.
While the debate continues, one fact is clear. If 76/P impacts Mars, we better wake up and set to work on implementing a real planetary defense plan. And perhaps, it would us also give us clear mandate to explore and colonize space so as to assure the survival of our species.
Mars Gravity Well
Many scientists and astronomers, including those at NASA, are of the opinion that the gravitational effects of the upcoming May 5 planetary alignment will not alter the trajectory of Comet 76/P.
Perhaps this is because they have no idea what to expect from such a close passing of a comet by Mars given NASA's recent loss of the Mars Climate Orbiter (MCO) and the Mars Polar Lander (MPL) during their landing approaches to Mars.
The failure of these two probes has forced NASA to reevaluate their understanding of the gravitational forces at work on Mars. This lack of understanding has resulted in the suspension of plans to land more rovers on Mars, and expressed Dr Carl Pilcher at a recent conference in Houston. During that conference he said "The search for life on the Red Planet will have to slow down until people on Earth have worked out how to land on Mars without crashing". It is also humorous to note that DR Carl Pilcher was wearing a sweatshirt that said, "Obey Gravity: Itís the Law" at the time he made that pronouncement.
DR Pilcher position that NASA needs to understand the gravitational forces on Mars before resuming its Mars exploration quintessentially sums up the fact that nobody, including NASA can say with any certainty that Comet 76/P is any more immune to unforeseen gravitational forces than the MCO and MPL spacecraft.
According to trusted sources, NASA has tentatively extended the mission objectives for the Deep Space One (DS1) probe to include an observation of 76P on June 1 2000. The Cassini space probe will also have a front seat view to this event, because the Earth will be behind the Sun during this time.
What this means for us, is that NASA alone be able to observe 76P or Mars at this time. Whatever happens, we will not know about it unless those wield the true power at NASA decide to fully share the information.
hmmmm
11/12/2007
6:41 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n-crrUkOWUc
SS
11/12/2007
11:48 am EST
Re: Pardon me, astro-lads, but are we sure this is a comet?
6/4/00 - The beginning of one of the largest dust storms ever recorded of the surface of Mars. Could it be a result of fragment hits?
5) Phobos & The Terrible Ones
There remains to this day no adequate proof that Phobos and Diemos (the moons of Mars) are still in orbit around Mars, following the passage of 76P. There is however some evidence that they have come to visit the earth since that event and perhaps even before that event! READ ON!
When we first became aware of the threat of 76P to Mars, one of the scenarios we entertained was the ripping away of the moons from the planet. We considered the direction of the comet, the comet's passage through the ecliptic just prior to contact, speed, and a few other factors. This is probably a good place to note that comet 76P has never been re-aquired after its encounter with Mars.
A few days before 76P reached Mars a curious thing happened. The sun went crazy, pumping out some incredible flares toward the area. In addition the shuttle Atlantis was in orbit over the earth and announced that they would be extending their mission three days. We believe that this was to see the effects of 76P on Mars. They happened to have with them extra instrumentation to suggest just this fact. However two days into the added three days they called an immediate halt to the mission and did an emergency landing. A landing that was at night - an extremely dangerous attempt and one that they had never done before or since. Reports at Kennedy say that the crosswinds even exceeded parameters for a regular daytime landing. News reports stated at the time that they came in so hot that they even "singed" the wings! What could have caused them to take such drastic measures? What was it that scared them enough to take such chances with their lives and a multibillion dollar craft?
We believe we know.
As 76P approached Mars it began to enter the ecliptic. Remember the ecliptic
~ good info
